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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject: Lightwhips vs. Lightsabers |
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I've been working on my own version of the Seven Forms, but I've got a missing piece that I want some input on: Lightwhips.
While the weapon exists in stat form, I haven't seen a version that addresses the advantages and disadvantages of a whip in combat with a more conventional lightsaber.
The way I figure, a lightwhip would be deadly on attack, both because of its range and the fact that it could potentially land a hit even if parried with a lightsaber (as the end of the whip will wrap around the blade using it as a new fulcrum point). The trade-off is that that same flexibility would make it much weaker on defense, as the lack of rigidity in the lash makes it about as effective in a parry as a wet noodle.
I'm already working on ranging rules for melee weapons, in the sense that a weapon with reach, like a spear or a whip, will be at an advantage only if he can keep a lightsaber wielder from getting "inside" his reach and gaining the upper hand. It's conceivable that a whip made with advanced technology could be variable in length; extending out to 4-5 meters for ranged combat, then retracting down to 1-2 meters to be more useful in close range combat.
Basically, I'm looking for what I'm missing with regards to whips in combat. Cheshire, didn't you write up the article on whips for D6 magazine? I'd appreciate your input on this.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| History Channel recently repeated an episode of Extreme Marksman that featured a guy who uses a whip. He seemed to have a number of both offensive and defensive moves. In addition to keeping someone at a distance by slicing or flicking them, he used the whip as a sort of nunchuk for parries or strikes as well as a garrote. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | History Channel recently repeated an episode of Extreme Marksman that featured a guy who uses a whip. He seemed to have a number of both offensive and defensive moves. In addition to keeping someone at a distance by slicing or flicking them, he used the whip as a sort of nunchuk for parries or strikes as well as a garrote. |
I think I saw that, and I enjoyed it. The problem is that the very nature of a lightwhip makes it much more dangerous than a normal whip, and some of the techniques he demonstrated might not be possible.
What I actually envision is something a bit more versatile. IMC, I distinguish between light weapons and force weapons by saying that both generate similar kinds of energy, but force weapons have a solid core, so a lightwhip would actually be called a forcewhip. One of the advantages of force weapons is that they have a variable damage setting; one inflicts normal damage, like a lightsaber, two inflicts stun damage, and the third does nothing more than protect the integrity of the core, like a magnetic seal (allowing the whip to be used for the tricks described in the D6 magazine article). The thing is, most of those tricks are non-combat oriented, apart from being able to Grab or Disarm with a whip. I may end up just giving a whip bonuses on offense and penalties on defense to keep things simple.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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I'll see if I can take a look at some information on lightwhips, since I'm not familiar with the EU materials from which they come.
Though I think you've already identified one of the problems in trying to give specialized combat options. Most of the time you just wind up giving bonuses or penalties to hit or defense. In the long run such modifiers wind up almost not being worth it. I've playtested a few different options dealing with lightsaber and sword variants, and it all boils down to one of the problems with the D6 mechanics. Though they work wonderfully for the cinematic stuff, it doesn't handle intricate detail with much finesse. When defining intricate combat rules, you have to be careful about making useful options but without it making combat clunky.
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Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | I'll see if I can take a look at some information on lightwhips, since I'm not familiar with the EU materials from which they come. |
The only for-sure references I am aware of are Lady Lumiya from the Marvel Comics and Githany from Jedi vs. Sith.
| Quote: | | Though I think you've already identified one of the problems in trying to give specialized combat options. Most of the time you just wind up giving bonuses or penalties to hit or defense. In the long run such modifiers wind up almost not being worth it. I've playtested a few different options dealing with lightsaber and sword variants, and it all boils down to one of the problems with the D6 mechanics. Though they work wonderfully for the cinematic stuff, it doesn't handle intricate detail with much finesse. When defining intricate combat rules, you have to be careful about making useful options but without it making combat clunky. |
I think I may have an idea for a house rule that could cover it. Basically, melee weapons are broken into three categories: Close (Knives and other small weapons), Standard (Lightsaber, Vibroswords and such) and Reach (Force Pikes, spears, etc.). Standard weapons are essentially unchanged, but the other two classes are more effective either at a distance or close in. They receive a +1D bonus when fighting at their optimum range, but a -1D penalty when fighting at Standard weapon range (and a -2D penalty for when a Close weapon fights at Reach range, and vice versa). The combat range is a function of initiative, so the initiative winner gets to pick the beginning range, and therefore holds the advantage at the beginning of the battle. I'm still working on a realistic manner to transition between ranges, but the gist of the idea is there.
EDIT: I'm considering using Wild Die rolls to spark an initiative re-roll, since the initiative roll determines several factors in my new system.
If I can make this work, it'll make dual-setting lightsabers more useful, as they can begin combat at Reach range, then transition down to Standard range at the press of a button. I also think dual-setting sabers could be very useful in mounted combat for the same reason...
As far as a lightwhip goes, I could see something similar. Depending on how long the lash is, it might even go beyond Reach range, but be correspondingly less useful the closer in an opponent got. An advanced whip could have a variable length, storing excess lash inside the hilt, so that a whip wielder could have a whip several meters long and good for tricks and hitting targets at range, then retract down to a meter or so in length and be much more capable in normal melee combat...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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