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RoE Optional Damage Rules
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For ranged combat the trade ratio between skill dice and damage dice should depend on both range and situation.

At point blank range the ratio might be 1:1. This would mean that someone not dodging will be in serious danger of getting shot dead right away.

At close range it might be 2:1, medium 3:1 and long 4:1.

Situational modifiers: Stationary target: Ratio drops one level (ie 3:1 becomes 2:1). This is not a target that simply doesnt dodge, but is more or less totally stationary or moving slowly (walking pace) in a straight line.

Sniping Scopes: Here snipers should excel, especially against stationaly or slow moving targets. Dropping the ratio one level in addition to the modifier for being stationary. I dont really have a good idea for a hard rule here though.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
Me too.A single shot kill is a sign of skill.

I am reminded of Quatermain's line in the League of Extraordinaty Gentlemen about American shooting.
But Quatermain uses a big game rifle. He doesn't shoot cape buffalo in the eye with .38 pistol or a .22 rifle. Which is basically what Jango is doing with the one shot 4D blaster pistol kill.

I just prefer one shot on a big target with a big gun or 1 attack (multiple shots) on a big target with a small gun. YMMV.
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
atgxtg wrote:
Me too.A single shot kill is a sign of skill.

I am reminded of Quatermain's line in the League of Extraordinaty Gentlemen about American shooting.
But Quatermain uses a big game rifle. He doesn't shoot cape buffalo in the eye with .38 pistol or a .22 rifle. Which is basically what Jango is doing with the one shot 4D blaster pistol kill.

I just prefer one shot on a big target with a big gun or 1 attack (multiple shots) on a big target with a small gun. YMMV.
'

But it aint that 'unrealistic' is it? Exept for the fact that hitting a large charging monster in the eye would be nigh impossible..but hey its Jango.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZzaphodD wrote:
But it aint that 'unrealistic' is it? Exept for the fact that hitting a large charging monster in the eye would be nigh impossible..but hey its Jango.
But he fires a hail of blaster shots at the Jedi he faces. Rule-wise those choices are inconsistent. Either one shot is better or it is not.

No, not unrealistic. My preference is not based on realism, per se, I just like a hail of blaster fire based on more than one bolt per attack and that seems in keeping with a lot of the scenes in the movies or the TV show.

I'm not really sure what the motivation is for Jango to stick with a pair of 4D weapons.
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
ZzaphodD wrote:
But it aint that 'unrealistic' is it? Exept for the fact that hitting a large charging monster in the eye would be nigh impossible..but hey its Jango.
But he fires a hail of blaster shots at the Jedi he faces. Rule-wise those choices are inconsistent. Either one shot is better or it is not.

No, not unrealistic. My preference is not based on realism, per se, I just like a hail of blaster fire based on more than one bolt per attack and that seems in keeping with a lot of the scenes in the movies or the TV show.

I'm not really sure what the motivation is for Jango to stick with a pair of 4D weapons.


Ah, but the Jedi is parrying I assume? Overwhelming the Jedi with a large number of shots is to get past his defences..

Yes, I know that is counterproductive under the RAW, but remember my houserule suggestion regarding parrying blaster shots...difficulty based on number of shots rather than skill of shooter.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZzaphodD wrote:
Ah, but the Jedi is parrying I assume? Overwhelming the Jedi with a large number of shots is to get past his defences..

Yes, I know that is counterproductive under the RAW, but remember my houserule suggestion regarding parrying blaster shots...difficulty based on number of shots rather than skill of shooter.
Yes. I had not forgotten. That was one of the aspects of your house rule that I liked. Very Happy
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vanir
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's an old school RPG special rule on called shots for instakills.

You're allowed.

What the rule doesn't allow for is instakill by proxy, adding damage, etc. to get it. It's a special effect, like the vorpal sword. It effectively defies the concept of hit points and kills by special case RP details (eg. in the case of being used on a player you always get a save vs death magic).
Similarly, any special rules for sniper instakills should defy the concept of character points as a special case, with RP emphasis. A special effect kill, not a magic weapon skill.


That would be the old school way, just sayin.
And that was Jango's kill IMHO.



It's hard to adapt some things to d6 since many old world RPG are d20, ergo the switch to d20 WotC. Still, we love d6 but in our game we do find some things in d20 that fit situations you have to get creative about to replicate in d6. Called shots and special combat effects being one of them.

They're not save based but are skill based and counter roll based, I understand that. Not to say I'd budge as a GM on the special effects emphasis of things like called shots and special combat manoeuvres.
That's just being complacent as a GM, I take it as a challenge, well then I just plain have to get more creative until it works right.

I think what we can do is adapt the smart thinking behind things like the advanced rules for lightsabre forms combat mechanics. Special manoeuvres at higher difficulty, and success then results in limited bonuses.


I personally abhor this rule of a static damage bonus related to CP expenditure in skills. It's counter-intuitive to mature gaming IMHO and more for a youth group excited by extremes.

I think you'd be far better suited developing a special weapon effects system for snipers and experienced combat vets based on increased target difficulties for limited special effects, like +2p to +2D to a roll, or +1D to +3D to an enemy difficulty, double damage rating but in stun damage (which you could follow with a coups de grâs), things like that.

Basically a ranged weapon version of the lightsabre combat styles.

Sorry, don't mean to offend I'm just sayin it straight.
Hey you know and my thinking here is going to make lightsabre vs blaster combat far more compatable.


something like this maybe?
Quote:
Sniper combat style (skill is tactics: sniper)
special combat effects are not gained without specialisation.

Skill specialisation requirements: Blaster 5D PER 3D

tactics: sniper is used for initiative, failing initiative means the target has moved out of position (turn based, reroll for concealment).
blaster skill used for difficulty/shots

Precise shot, difficulty: +15, effect: +2D damage, must spend one round to aim.
Ranged shot, spending a round to aim a weapon not only gives +1D blaster skill but reduces range class for the shot by one level.
Instinctive accuracy, difficulty: +10, effect: +1D damage with ranged weapons on the fly.

note that specific hit locations may vary damage resistance, for example many suits of armour have far less head protection than a thick breastplate. Any aimed shot inherently targets sniper specified general hit locations.

upon armour forgo rolling upon damage tables and provide user selection to effect by players for successfully targeted specific locations. eg. a sniper may elect to shut down the power supply of powered armour, the GM should rule by specific case, typically a -1D armouring reduction for specifically targeted machinery systems maybe applied at increased difficulty ratings, or double damage but only to the specified system, leaving the basic structure intact.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
atgxtg wrote:
Me too.A single shot kill is a sign of skill.

I am reminded of Quatermain's line in the League of Extraordinaty Gentlemen about American shooting.
But Quatermain uses a big game rifle. He doesn't shoot cape buffalo in the eye with .38 pistol or a .22 rifle.


Nobody would, if hey had a better option. Byut a single .22 through the eye is much more likely o drop a cape buffalo than spreaying it with a half dozen .22 rounds.

Quote:

Which is basically what Jango is doing with the one shot 4D blaster pistol kill.


Well, I7d say closer to a 9mm or .45 but otherwise that is precisely what Jango does, and it makes sense. If you are stuck using a pistol against a large creature, a well placed shot to a vital location will be more effective than a bunch of shots placed in a haphazard fashion.

THat is where most RPGs get it wrong. It's now how many shots hit the target, but how well you can place a shot.

That is why light pistols and knives are still deadly. You don't need to inflict a lot of damage to living organism to kill it. Just just have to inflict damage to the right organs.




Quote:

I just prefer one shot on a big target with a big gun or 1 attack (multiple shots) on a big target with a small gun. YMMV.


But multiple shots with a small gun would tend to be less effective than one shot. It isn't a case of whittling down hit points, but of damage one organ badly enough that it stops the target.

If you were carrying a 9mm Beretta 93R and were attacked by a Bull Elephant (not a good sitation) you would be more likely to incapacitate quickly it with a snigle well-placed shot that by firing a burst. The burst might eventually incapacitate or kill the elephant, but not before it reaches you. The animal's vast size makes it harder to drop it with "general" damage.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
But he fires a hail of blaster shots at the Jedi he faces. Rule-wise those choices are inconsistent. Either one shot is better or it is not.


Not at all inconsistent, First off Reeks can't parry. Secondly, humanoids are not as large as Reeks, and thier vital organs are not as well protected. Thirdly, intelligent being are smart enough to relaize that they should fall down when they get shiot (Don't laugh, but a great deal of how somebody reacts to being shot is based upon thier attitude and beliefs).

Where or not is makes sense to make multiple attacks on someone in D6 when one parry or dodge lasts for the whole round is another matter.

Quote:

No, not unrealistic. My preference is not based on realism, per se, I just like a hail of blaster fire based on more than one bolt per attack and that seems in keeping with a lot of the scenes in the movies or the TV show.


Well it is unrealisitic, but you sort of admit that. While we do see a lot of shots going off in the films and TV show, nothing in the RAW indicates that multiple shots are one attack. You can run it that way, but how would you determine how many shots were in a given attack and track ammo?

Quote:

I'm not really sure what the motivation is for Jango to stick with a pair of 4D weapons.


Becuase realistically, they work and he has devloped a high degree of skill with them. I know RPGs tend to get people thinking that a 5D weapon is "better" than a 4D one, but realistically, skill is more important than energy is derteiming how effective a weapon is. A .22 pistol in the hands of an expert is deadler than a .44 magnum in the hands of a novice.

Jango was very skilled, like a modern trick shooter, and obviosuly knew that he could handle the Reek with a well placed shot.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
Nobody would, if hey had a better option. Byut a single .22 through the eye is much more likely o drop a cape buffalo than spreaying it with a half dozen .22 rounds.
Obviously that depends where the multiple shots hit. Wink

Quote:
Well, I7d say closer to a 9mm or .45...
9mm < .38 inches < .45 inches so .38 seems at least as close as a 9mm. Wink
Quote:
but otherwise that is precisely what Jango does, and it makes sense. If you are stuck using a pistol against a large creature, a well placed shot to a vital location will be more effective than a bunch of shots placed in a haphazard fashion.
This assumes blasters are like firearms in effect. I prefer them to be different in effect and I think that is in keeping with the shots we see hitting the walls and buring in the landing bay on Tatooine.So I can see an argument for multiple shots in the same general location causing more damage or effectively blasting away at the target and penetrating armor, flesh, and bone to reach a vital area.

Quote:
But multiple shots with a small gun would tend to be less effective than one shot. It isn't a case of whittling down hit points, but of damage one organ badly enough that it stops the target.
This assumes one shot is aimed at a vital location and none of the multipe shots are aimed at a vital location and it assumes that blasters are just like firearms. Neither of those may be true and I think the latter is not true.

atgxtg wrote:
Bren wrote:
But he fires a hail of blaster shots at the Jedi he faces. Rule-wise those choices are inconsistent. Either one shot is better or it is not.
Where or not is makes sense to make multiple attacks on someone in D6 when one parry or dodge lasts for the whole round is another matter.
That is the point. Jango had a better chance of not being parried under the RAW if he shot once only at the Jedi than if he shot multiple times. ZzaphodD's house rule actually works better to account for Jango's choices.

Quote:
Quote:
No, not unrealistic. My preference is not based on realism, per se, I just like a hail of blaster fire based on more than one bolt per attack and that seems in keeping with a lot of the scenes in the movies or the TV show.

While we do see a lot of shots going off in the films and TV show, nothing in the RAW indicates that multiple shots are one attack.
Never claimed it did. I just prefer to interpret it that way. As a bonus it makes guns that single fire and carry 100 shots make more sense.

Quote:
You can run it that way, but how would you determine how many shots were in a given attack and track ammo?
Pick from the following:
(1) Set a flat number per attack say in the range of 3-6 shots possibly based on type of blaster.
(2) Use GM fiat as to how many shots were used up.
(3) Use the REF rules and add one shot per extra pip of damage from a REF attack, so +10 over the target to hit number does +2 damage and uses 2 extra shots. This gives the movie like effect of Mel Gibson with his Baretta blazing away at a target.

Quote:
Quote:
I'm not really sure what the motivation is for Jango to stick with a pair of 4D weapons.

Becuase realistically, they work and he has devloped a high degree of skill with them. I know RPGs tend to get people thinking that a 5D weapon is "better" than a 4D one, but realistically, skill is more important than energy is derteiming how effective a weapon is. A .22 pistol in the hands of an expert is deadler than a .44 magnum in the hands of a novice.
But those aren't the choices. The choices are a 4D weapon and a 5D weapon in the exact same expert hands where the only difference between the two weapons are based on the game stats. Unless he is (i) shooting at long range or (ii) worried about running out of ammo, the heavy blaster is the better weapon.

And you might notice, my preference for multiple shots per attack actually makes Jango's preference for a standard blaster pistol (with its greater ammo capacity) over a heavy blaster pistol make more sense than your preference for 1 shot per attack.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is why I prefer the cinematic approach and try to stray from realism.

In the game the GM should make it as cinematic as possible.
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