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jmanski
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 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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That makes sense to me. Simple and effective.
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jmanski
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Fallon Kell wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | As someone who loves using silencers on slug throwers for my PCs, most GMs i have played under with them have only given someone a Perception check to notice my firing it if within 20 meters.. otherwise they are too far away to here anything. Of the difficulties, most have hovered around 13-16. |
Most modern firearms' suppressed report is over 100db. That's awfully easy to hear at 20m. I can accept, though, that Star Wars suppressors could be much better. Active noise canceling could even produce true silencers... |
Where you getting that figure from? Having been at a range in iraq where we had people on the line shooting the M16/M4, as well as H&K MP5s as well as the silenced versions, i can tell ya someone standing 9 rows away with a regular MP5 was heard a lot easier than someone 2 lanes over with a silenced mp5. |
Are you questioning the 100 db or the 20 meters or both?
100db isn't all that loud, considering it's a firearm. And an MP5 is 9mm, which is subsonic, so a suppressor will make a big difference.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Maybe it would be better to say that pistol or machine-pistol sized weapons can be silenced, while larger rifle and carbine scale slugthrowers can only be suppressed? My understanding is that a suppressed rifle shot can still be detected as such, just at a much shorter range, and that it is difficult to locate the source of the shot even if you do hear it. |
That could work. I know those SOcom .48 pistols are REAL quiet, but even the M4 silencer variant still puts out a little noise.
| Quote: | | Are you questioning the 100 db or the 20 meters or both? |
Both.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | Maybe it would be better to say that pistol or machine-pistol sized weapons can be silenced, while larger rifle and carbine scale slugthrowers can only be suppressed? My understanding is that a suppressed rifle shot can still be detected as such, just at a much shorter range, and that it is difficult to locate the source of the shot even if you do hear it. |
That could work. I know those SOcom .48 pistols are REAL quiet, but even the M4 silencer variant still puts out a little noise. |
So what would be some alternate rules for a suppressed weapon, as opposed to a silenced one?
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Are you questioning the 100 db or the 20 meters or both? |
Both. |
Uhhhh, wasn't 20 meters your idea?
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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The 20m is what a few other GMs in our sparks campaign have used.. And even then 2 of those who did it only had it crop up sporadically.
As to silenced/surpressed.
Perhaps suppressed shots get an easier Per check to notice (free action) or search roll (1 action) to check it where a silenced weapon is un noticable unless within 10m.
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Fallon Kell
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Joined: 07 Mar 2011
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Fallon Kell wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | As someone who loves using silencers on slug throwers for my PCs, most GMs i have played under with them have only given someone a Perception check to notice my firing it if within 20 meters.. otherwise they are too far away to here anything. Of the difficulties, most have hovered around 13-16. |
Most modern firearms' suppressed report is over 100db. That's awfully easy to hear at 20m. I can accept, though, that Star Wars suppressors could be much better. Active noise canceling could even produce true silencers... |
Where you getting that figure from? Having been at a range in iraq where we had people on the line shooting the M16/M4, as well as H&K MP5s as well as the silenced versions, i can tell ya someone standing 9 rows away with a regular MP5 was heard a lot easier than someone 2 lanes over with a silenced mp5. |
Are you questioning the 100 db or the 20 meters or both?
100db isn't all that loud, considering it's a firearm. And an MP5 is 9mm, which is subsonic, so a suppressor will make a big difference. |
Very true. The MP5SD2 (suppressed MP5) has a reputation for being exceptionally quiet. (The report is quieter than the sound of the bolt working.) 5.56 NATO has a reputation for being loud when it's super sonic and insufficiently deadly when it's subsonic. Hence the invention of the silent but deadly .458 SOCOM.
The key factor in suppression is bullet velocity, which is also the key factor in range. I suggest that silencers not using active technology be given a theoretical range cap, beyond which subsonic ammo cannot be used.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:28 am Post subject: |
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Even though firearms in SW are already lesser ranged than their blaster counterparts..?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:15 am Post subject: |
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For suppressed weapons, I think I'm going to resurrect one of my original suggestions from earlier in this post. Specifically, the difficulty to detect the firing of a suppressed weapon is tied in with its range, so the difficulty to identify the sound of the shot is as follows:Point Blank - Very Easy
Short - Easy
Medium - Moderate
Long - Difficult
Trying to identify the location of a shooter using a suppressed weapon uses the same chart, but at +10 difficulty.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Would that be a free action (Per check) or a MAP action (search roll)?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Would that be a free action (Per check) or a MAP action (search roll)? |
I think free action for the Per check to identify, but standard action (with MAPs applied as usual) for the Per / Search check to locate.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Your mileage may vary but mechanical suppressors don’t feel very Star Wars to me. I’d be tempted to take a concept from the video games and say that non-blaster style weapons can be upgraded to have a ‘stealth field’ The stealth field cancels out the noise and flash from the first shot completely and then burns out requiring reconditioning. The reconditioning cost would be 50% of the price of a new stealth field and the price of the stealth field would be based on the damage of the gun and it’s range. So perhaps 500 credits per D of damage multiplied by the 0.5 for a gun with a maximum range of less than 50 metres, multiplied by 1 for a maximum range of between 50 and 150 and multiplied by 2 for a maximum range greater than 150 metres.
The numbers are just off the top of my head but that means a gun with a maximum range of 300 metres and a damage of 5D would cost 2500 x 2 or 5000 to silence and then 2500 to recondition once the stealth field has been used.
It isn’t as good as a mechanical suppressor, which while not completely silent can last for a great many shots (depending on the technology, some last for ten shots or less) but it doesn’t feel in the spirit of Star Wars to have silent firearms that can be used at will, I like the idea that if you want to be silent then by and large you need to avoid gunplay altogether.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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We've already discussed the possibility above of active silencing technology, using active sound dampening systems. If you don't feel that silenced firearms feel Star Wars, that's fine, but it isn't an opinion that I share.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Fallon Kell
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | We've already discussed the possibility above of active silencing technology, using active sound dampening systems. If you don't feel that silenced firearms feel Star Wars, that's fine, but it isn't an opinion that I share. |
Same here. Star Wars, especially in the original trilogy, seems to be more about doing with a greasy metal can, what other sci-fi shows would use a supercomputer and force field generator for.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Especially since several official source books list them.
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