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Combined Actions rules flaws - how do you get around them?
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TheDoctor
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:58 pm    Post subject: Combined Actions rules flaws - how do you get around them? Reply with quote

Combined Action Rules in summary:

*Character with highest PERCEPTION or Command is the "Commander"
*The Commander can coordinate only as many people as s/he has Command dice
*Command difficulty is based on how well the coordinating characters know each other and complexity of the task
*If the Commander is working on the task as well, there's a MAP
*A successful Command check results in a Combined Action bonus of +1 per character combined (or +3D per 3 people) added to Character's roll with the highest skill level for the relevant task.

Problem 1: The average squad is between 8 and 10 troopers commanded by either a Corporal or Sergeant, does that mean every Corporal or Sergeant has at least 7D in Command?

Problem 2: Han is working on repairing the Alluvial Dampners and could use some help from Chewie. Being the Captain, Han would be the commander, would suffer a -1D MAP for "Commanding" and fixing the Alluvial Dampners, but would only receive a +2 [edited from "=1"] to the roll representing Chewie's help. Intuitively it makes sense that Chewie would be helpful, but it game terms, his +2 help doesn't outweigh the -1D MAP.

Problem 2.5: Han gets a +2 bonus for combining actions whether the "helper" is Chewie or Jar Jar Banks (sorry, Jar Jar!). You'd think there'd be a difference.

How do you guys get around these scenarios? Do you have house Combined Actions rules?
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Last edited by TheDoctor on Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ral_Brelt
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In response to question two...

Han is also participating in the repair, so wouldn't that make it +2D for 2 beings? Which would then make it a net +1D to the repair roll. (2D bonus - 1D MAP)
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TheDoctor
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ral_Brelt wrote:
In response to question two...

Han is also participating in the repair, so wouldn't that make it +2D for 2 beings? Which would then make it a net +1D to the repair roll. (2D bonus - 1D MAP)


No, it would only be +2: +1 per being helping per Star Wars RPG: p 83.
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griff
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reply to #1. I too always had a problem with the #D=to people commanded. If I remember there is a Command Difficulty chart. Second Edition (Blue Vader Book).
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been considering this in my games as well. First off it does not seem that the bonus is nearly high enough (+1 per person, 3 people is +1D). It does seem a messy system as well. Though I think your example would be a combination of Command and Tactics, but I do understand what your saying.

I will have to give this some more thought. Share some of my ideas. Then again I am not the be all, end all of the SWD6 mechanics. I too would love to see peoples suggestions on this as it currently is 1. ineffective and 2. doesn't make much sense.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

griff wrote:
Reply to #1. I too always had a problem with the #D=to people commanded. If I remember there is a Command Difficulty chart. Second Edition (Blue Vader Book).


But the often overlooked part of that is Those who are highly skilled or used to one another (like a veteran squad of troops lets say) they can be commanded even if the # of D the leader has in command would not show it.
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TheDoctor
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it's not just me...that's good.

Now I know this is straying into House Rules territory, but does anyone have alternate rules for combining actions?

At a con where I was running a D6 game, I couldn't remember how the combined actions rules went, so I made it up on the fly that the people cooperating on a task would both roll, and the higher roll would count toward the task.
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griff
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought, if two are combining have the higher skill roll with one level difficulty lower, decrease the repair time in half. You shouldn't need to make a lot of convoluted adjustments. If many hands make light work the task, a simple solution would be the best for quick game play.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regards to question 2, recall that the MAP only applies in the round in which the Command is given, but the bonus for coordinating continues for the length of the repair (base of 15 minutes, subject to modification). If Han takes 1 round to use his Command skill to coordinate with Chewie, he just has to wait until the next round to start making the repair.
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Random_Axe
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
I have been considering this in my games as well. First off it does not seem that the bonus is nearly high enough (+1 per person, 3 people is +1D).

I also never liked the Combined benefits from 2e (Blue Vader book). I have always stuck with the Combined actions rules from the original Rules Companion, wherein you take all the "supporting" characters' relevant dice in the skill, and the lead roller gets that many pips as the benefit.
ie. Luke is rolling his repulsor repair skill of 4d+2, with Leia (skill of 3d+1) and JarJar (skill of 4d+1) and hapless Han (2d+2).
Leia adds +3, JarJar adds +4, and hapless Han adds +2. Therefore Luke will roll 4d+2, +3+4+2, or 4d+11 for his Landspeeder fix.
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griff
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From last post- 4D+2. +3+4+2 equals 4D+11.

I have treated all bonuses to die codes as normal pips which the roll would be 7D+1.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Random_Axe wrote:
shootingwomprats wrote:
I have been considering this in my games as well. First off it does not seem that the bonus is nearly high enough (+1 per person, 3 people is +1D).

I also never liked the Combined benefits from 2e (Blue Vader book). .


I much prefer the granular system the vader cover original 2e book had.. 2 gets you +1d, 4 gets you 2d and so on.. and unlike how R&E had it, combining added to both the to hit and damage pools.
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Quetzacotl
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which is nearly the same as it is now.
Each person +1, Every 3 Persons +1D (instead of the +1 each).
But this ignores the abilities of the people again.


Another idea could be:
Make everyone roll.
The first person uses his full result.
The second person adds half of his result.
The third person adds one third of his result and so on.

At one point another person more doesn't really add anything, he might even stand in the way.
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TheDoctor
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quetzacotl wrote:
Which is nearly the same as it is now.
Each person +1, Every 3 Persons +1D (instead of the +1 each).
But this ignores the abilities of the people again.


Another idea could be:
Make everyone roll.
The first person uses his full result.
The second person adds half of his result.
The third person adds one third of his result and so on.

At one point another person more doesn't really add anything, he might even stand in the way.


I like your idea, that's pretty similar to how I had thought of handling it in the future.
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TheDoctor
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
With regards to question 2, recall that the MAP only applies in the round in which the Command is given, but the bonus for coordinating continues for the length of the repair (base of 15 minutes, subject to modification). If Han takes 1 round to use his Command skill to coordinate with Chewie, he just has to wait until the next round to start making the repair.


This I had not considered. Thank you for mentioning it!
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