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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
Whill wrote:
My primary purpose in having it is the same as it is for d20 books - to pillage anything useful from it for my D6 game, mostly art and fluff.


We need to get together and talk about doing some Rancor Pit "almost semi-official" stats.

ok.

cheshire wrote:
Nico_Davout wrote:
New sourcebook coming about Corellian sector. Nice!

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4350


Now that's relatively uncharted territory in SWRPG! Nice find! Thanks for keeping us posted.

This book came in the mail the other day. WotC's Coruscant and the Core Worlds actually has 41 pages devoted to the Corellian Sector, so it seems there is some overlap here. But of course Suns of Fortune is solely devoted to the Corellian Sector and there is some new territory too. At first glance, it seems to be a pretty good sourcebook. It has Essential-Atlas-esque quick-glance planet capsule pages with new, nicely rendered planet images (although more shadow which makes it seem like they were trying to save on color ink). And of course, there's some new great SW artwork, which I've now come to expect with every FFG release.
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Last edited by Whill on Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:55 am    Post subject: Age of Rebellion Reply with quote

Nico_Davout wrote:
Whill wrote:
strongly implies that the other 5 races from the Edge of the Empire core are not playable

They are. The only thing that is different is a Obligation-Duty mechanics. Everything else is the same.

Cool that you can use EotE races in AoR, but there are still only 4 new races not already available in the EotE Core and Enter the Unknown. That's pretty crappy for a $60 retail standalone core book that already is mostly repetitive as it is. Since Duros were in the explorers book, they could have replaced them with something new in AoR. Since these cores are standalone, I can understand having Humans in all of them, but they don't need Bothans and Droid PCs in both of the first two cores. That's d@mn crappy.

That being said, I'm looking forward to the AoR core more than I did for EotE. Duros, Gran, Ithorians, Mon Calamari and Sullustans are all core PC races in my game, and I'm expecting some new cool character art. There had better be, with me paying $40-some for a mostly duplicate ruleset of a game I may never even play.
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Nico_Davout
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you won't find much new stuff. Some new races, new ships, new force powers, specializations which utilize the same talents and some mass-combat rules AFAIR. And a new adventure. Also the latest errata should be there. At least with the 2nd print of EotE rulebook there were changes.
I will surely wait and buy a used copy of AoR later...
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nico_Davout wrote:
I think you won't find much new stuff. Some new races, new ships, new force powers, specializations which utilize the same talents and some mass-combat rules AFAIR. And a new adventure. Also the latest errata should be there. At least with the 2nd print of EotE rulebook there were changes.
I will surely wait and buy a used copy of AoR later...

So my EotE core book is out of date already? What was the point of having an EotE beta and editors if it is still incorrect? That's pathetic. I'm seriously considering selling my 1st printing EotE core after I get the AOR core. It will be a waste of real estate on my bookshelf. And I really don't even see the need for an AoR beta. What new game mechanics are they testing out? Duty and a few new species? It's the same game system again. Ugh.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Nico_Davout wrote:

*SNIP*
At least with the 2nd print of EotE rulebook there were changes.
I will surely wait and buy a used copy of AoR later...

So my EotE core book is out of date already? What was the point of having an EotE beta and editors if it is still incorrect? That's pathetic.
*SNIP*

It depends on how extensive the errata are. If they're covering rule changes, then yeah... kinda stupid. If it's fixing the various printing errors I've seen mentioned on the FFG boards, then it makes sense. For instance, there are some rules that are confusing because of misprints. If they fixed that, then it makes sense. If they're doing rules restructuring then it seems like kick in the teeth to me. As much as I'm of the mindset of "yeah, rpg books are expensive these days" if a work goes obsolete (which is what I'm hoping we're not talking about) within a year, then it's worth being mad about.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
Whill wrote:
Nico_Davout wrote:

*SNIP*
At least with the 2nd print of EotE rulebook there were changes.
I will surely wait and buy a used copy of AoR later...

So my EotE core book is out of date already? What was the point of having an EotE beta and editors if it is still incorrect? That's pathetic.
*SNIP*

It depends on how extensive the errata are. If they're covering rule changes, then yeah... kinda stupid. If it's fixing the various printing errors I've seen mentioned on the FFG boards, then it makes sense. For instance, there are some rules that are confusing because of misprints. If they fixed that, then it makes sense. If they're doing rules restructuring then it seems like kick in the teeth to me. As much as I'm of the mindset of "yeah, rpg books are expensive these days" if a work goes obsolete (which is what I'm hoping we're not talking about) within a year, then it's worth being mad about.

Supposedly they are not restructuring rules except for Obligation being replaced by Duty. I'm not "mad" about the existence of a 2nd printing of the EotE core book that clarifies rules and corrects mistakes - I was begrudging the fact that the 1st printing book I already have is incorrect in the first place. Since I refuse to buy the 2nd printing of the EotE core, I just downloaded the errata. And you can just refer to the more up-to-date AoR core for any rules appearing in both books, which leads to what I'm actually mad about: the marketing strategy of publishing three $60 core books of mostly overlapping material. They will probably publish a 4th core or a full-fledged restructuring of the rules with the new films. Yes, I could just not buy it all, but since I can't resist, I'm choosing to view the expenditures as giving me the right to complain about it. 8)
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Nico_Davout
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The errata is minor IMO. Still QA in FFG did not deserve Christmas bonus if they had one.

Whill wrote:
I'm choosing to view the expenditures as giving me the right to complain about it. 8)


8)
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, It is a bummer that they've got errors in the current book. I felt the same way when they did the second printing of SAGA. The feeling of "Oh great, I've got the error-ridden one."

I haven't gotten the errata for EotE yet, but I'm probably going to do that... once I replace the hard drive all my EotE stuff was on. (Don't worry, I backed everything up two days before it died.)

I guess that was the great thing about WEG. When they printed a book, it was definitive. Granted, it may have been wrong, but at least it was definitively inaccurate.
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Nico_Davout
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
I guess that was the great thing about WEG. When they printed a book, it was definitive. Granted, it may have been wrong, but at least it was definitively inaccurate.


As an "old" war-boardgamer I prefer to have an inaccurate rulebook with definitive errata than definitively inaccurate rulebook with no errata. I think it has more to do with ease how it is now to distribute an errata/faq through internet.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
I haven't gotten the errata for EotE yet, but I'm probably going to do that... once I replace the hard drive all my EotE stuff was on.

The errata does not seem minor at all. Be advised that the official FAQ/errata document available for download is anything but definitive. It does not have all the known errata. There is a long list of additional errata posted on the forum. Sure, some of them are only typos but not all. And there are multiple threads with rules clarifications form the lead designer of the game. The "oppressively crunchy" core book seems to be extremely confusing for the gamers, and I've been able to gather that a lot of these are former d20 gamers, which you would think should be able to digest the crunch easily.

From reading the FFG forums I've come away somewhat depressed. My basic assumption about this 3rd SW RPG was that it had to be better than d20 because d20 is so horrible. But it seems this new game may not be any better than d20, and it may even be harder to convert to D6. Not only that, FFG SW still has some thinly-disguised d20-esque mechanics. Classes are now called Careers. Feats are now called Talents. Skills are career skills or non-career skills for each career. It's just sad. The overall game system design/publication schedule/marketing strategy seems very similar to WotC. An extremely structured character design system with finite options is doled out in very small doses, with every new release providing new class specializations and feats. The more variety you want, the more you have to buy.

R&E has everything you need. No classes with mandatory specializations and assigned career/specialization-based talent trees, just a bunch of templates with no game mechanical categories. You want more character templates? There are simple rules to make your own game-balanced character types. Just allocate 18 attribute dice and come up with a background. In D6 there are no career abilities and talents. Everything you do is simply governed by skills, and there are no non-career skills. Grow your character anyway you want. I just don't understand how Star Wars gamers could feel the need for anything else. D6 is flexible enough that you could easily add narrative dice or whatever new game aspect flavor you like from FFG game.

And one more thing before I end my grognard rant. I do love my RPG core books and sourcebooks being quality, full-color hardbacks. But do we really need that for adventures? Something that will not be opened and closed nearly as much because it would only get used a few times in any one gaming group? Even if still in color, all adventures should be paperbacks. Hardback adventure books are just another way to really cha-ching us.

All that being said, the new Hired Guns class sourcebook became available at a low enough price for me to order it from Amazon. That and the Beyond The Rim adventure book are now on the way to me. Confused
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The price is enough to scare me off the adventures. There aren't going to be mechanics in there that we're likely to convert, so I'm leaving those well enough alone.
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only use I could possibly see in an adventure would be optional rules.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
The only use I could possibly see in an adventure would be optional rules.


Do they have many optional rule sets in either of the FFG adventures? I flipped through Beyond the Rim, but didn't see a whole lot besides a hyperspace message pod that was even half interesting.

Now, I'm sure it's a nice adventure... just I'm not going to shell out the money for one.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
The only use I could possibly see in an adventure would be optional rules.

Uh, how about the plot? Or at least plot/encounter ideas? I think adventures have the highest possibility of something useful to D6 because its main purpose is not to present rules we won't use. I view adventure plots themselves as beyond game mechanics and modular. I would think that writers of published RPG adventures write them just as we do. You come up with the story and -insert stats here and here-. As Cheshire said, there may be a need to introduce a few new rules here and there, but for the most part you are using rules from other products to run an adventure.

IIRC, the current adventure book is a quest for a lost Separatist treasure ship. That idea holds potential for Rebel or other campaigns. I'm actually looking more forward to the next adventure coming out which will take place on Cloud City.

Oh, and there is the aforementioned art. I'm a huge Mike Vilardi fan, but overall WEG art was very inconsistent. Some of it (not Mike Vilardi) was just plain horrible. So far, I would have to give the award for most consistently good overall artwork to FFG out of the three SW games. That is at least the one thing FFG has done well so far.

And you wouldn't have to shell out so much money for an adventure book if they were paperback like they should be.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:


IIRC, the current adventure book is a quest for a lost Separatist treasure ship. That idea holds potential for Rebel or other campaigns. I'm actually looking more forward to the next adventure coming out which will take place on Cloud City.

Oh, and there is the aforementioned art. I'm a huge Mike Vilardi fan, but overall WEG art was very inconsistent. Some of it (not Mike Vilardi) was just plain horrible. So far, I would have to give the award for most consistently good overall artwork to FFG out of the three SW games. That is at least the one thing FFG has done well so far.


Oh man, if that's the center of the story, then it would be a really BAD thing for me to read right now. I'm doing a splatbook that could really draw on those ideas... maybe too much if you catch my drift.

And the art is just spectacular. I sent an e-mail to Zoe Robinson at FFG to tell her what I thought, and she was quite pleased to get direct contact with the fans.
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