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atgxtg Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 2460
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 8:26 am Post subject: |
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crmcneill wrote: |
Actually, there is a sixth option: default to the most numerous gun, or if there are two cannon of equal strength, default to the one with the highest FC. Ion cannon damage might have to be resolved separately, though... |
That works, too. It';s nice to finally have a problem where we have a multitude of solutions!
[quoteMy concept was more along the lines of either tight or loose formation, with Loose allowing the ships to have a little room to maneuver, and Tight allowing them to overlap shields. [/quote]
Ooh, overlapping shields is nice. Good way to use the "combined fire" rules.
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Hadn't really gotten beyond that, though. I know WOTC's 4ER rulebook has a section on using starfighter squadrons in combat, but I haven't had the chance to read up on it since I found it. I'll be looking for some pointers there as soon as I find the time. |
WEG's Star Warriors game had rules for using groups of fighters ("Wings"). Mostly it meant treating a group as one ship. They all did the same thing, use the same die rolls and took the same damage, Except that if you wanted, you could keep the rest of the wing from being damaged by losing a fighter. For example Wedge's fighter can't keep up and he has to leave. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16174 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:10 am Post subject: |
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atgxtg wrote: | That works, too. It';s nice to finally have a problem where we have a multitude of solutions! |
NO! Now we must ARGUE, over which solution is the rightest!
Quote: | Ooh, overlapping shields is nice. Good way to use the "combined fire" rules. |
My thinking with Close and Very Close was that the closer you got, the less you could maneuver, but the more protection you gained from the overlapping shields of neighboring craft.
Quote: | WEG's Star Warriors game had rules for using groups of fighters ("Wings"). Mostly it meant treating a group as one ship. They all did the same thing, use the same die rolls and took the same damage, Except that if you wanted, you could keep the rest of the wing from being damaged by losing a fighter. For example Wedge's fighter can't keep up and he has to leave. |
Hmm. I think I have a copy of Star Warriors on my hard drive. I may have to load it across to my tablet so I can read it at the truck stops during down time... _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16174 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Part of my theory for giving improving SF-Scale laser cannon is based on the thinking that heavy cannon would not be able to shoot at smaller scale targets at Point blank range, so that fighters could get in "under the guns", so to speak. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14031 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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crmcneill wrote: | atgxtg wrote: | I'd probably leave to the individual GMs to pick which method works best. So they can fire tune the damage to fit what they wants to do. |
Actually, there is a sixth option: default to the most numerous gun, or if there are two cannon of equal strength, default to the one with the highest FC. Ion cannon damage might have to be resolved separately, though... |
I defintely think ion cannons should be done differently. Heck might even say turbo lasers and regular lasers should also be that way.
crmcneill wrote: |
My concept was more along the lines of either tight or loose formation, with Loose allowing the ships to have a little room to maneuver, and Tight allowing them to overlap shields. Hadn't really gotten beyond that, though. I know WOTC's 4ER rulebook has a section on using starfighter squadrons in combat, but I haven't had the chance to read up on it since I found it. I'll be looking for some pointers there as soon as I find the time. |
Wouldn't being in tight formations though pose its own issues, what with the potential to ram into a wingmate?
Quote: | Part of my theory for giving improving SF-Scale laser cannon is based on the thinking that heavy cannon would not be able to shoot at smaller scale targets at Point blank range, so that fighters could get in "under the guns", so to speak. |
So perhaps lasers can shoot at a 1-3 hex point black, but turbos can't. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16174 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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garhkal wrote: | I defintely think ion cannons should be done differently. Heck might even say turbo lasers and regular lasers should also be that way. |
I'm not sure what you mean; lasers are starfighter scale and would be able to target starfighters directly instead of resorting to barrage fire. Ion cannon would only need to be resolved separately to figure out whether the target takes normal or ion damage.
Quote: | Wouldn't being in tight formations though pose its own issues, what with the potential to ram into a wingmate? |
Technically more of a sideswipe than a ram, but the payoff would be that the closer the ships can fly together, the greater the level of protection from the overlapping shields.
Quote: | So perhaps lasers can shoot at a 1-3 hex point black, but turbos can't. |
Since not everyone uses hex maps, I prefer to think in terms of what is described in the RAW, then people may convert the rules to hex maps if they wish. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14031 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:32 am Post subject: |
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crmcneill wrote: | garhkal wrote: | I defintely think ion cannons should be done differently. Heck might even say turbo lasers and regular lasers should also be that way. |
I'm not sure what you mean; lasers are starfighter scale and would be able to target starfighters directly instead of resorting to barrage fire. |
I did remember a few ships in the PDF that had both lasers and turbos.. Looks like the 2 i was thinking of listed them as cap ship gunnery, but no scale. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16174 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:46 am Post subject: |
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My take on that was that the skill referenced under the weapon stat referred to the specific skill to use from the ship stat's crew skill list, so that a weapon that used Capital Ship Gunnery would use that skill dice level stacked with Fire Control, regardless of scale. This would potentially allow a ship to have gunners of varying quality, such as skilled turbolaser gunners and mediocre laser gunners, which could come in handy for a specifically nuanced stat. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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schnarre Commander
Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Posts: 333
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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...I realize I've come into this late, but couldn't resist chipping in.
...As to low weapon damage for anti-starfighter weapons, I never found this an issue for a number of reasons:
1) I use 1st Ed. scaling rules--any fighter's soak roll dice that exceed the die cap are discarded (so if the fighter rolls all '6's, the weapon deals the full amount rolled).
2) In 1st Ed. (original RPG book), should the to-hit roll exceed the roll opposing it by 2x then Shields are ignored.
3) With 2nd ed, 1-2 CPs can be spent to increase weapon damage: most opponents should have at least 1-2 CPs, even if little else.
& 4) Borrowing the rules for called shots out of the Rules Companion chapter on Capital ship combat, especially the "Vital Location" called shot: -2D on to hit roll, but target rolls -1D Hull to soak it. making a Nebulon-B's anti-starfighter laser more effective if the targets (like Toscan 8-Qs, C-73 Trackers & the like which would be in pirate inventory most likely) despite their low damage listing.
...In lieu of Yavin, one could see a few Nebulon-B's (perhaps attached to the Corporate Sector Authority) having their Lasers upgraded to Quad Laser cannons: FC: 2D DMG: 2D --> FC: 4D DMG: 4D. The CSA would likely have the clout, & certainly would have the funds (not to mention the greed & self-interest ) to see such a variation.
...Just a few idle thoughts anyway. _________________ The man who thinks he knows everything is most annoying for those of us that do. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16174 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 2:31 am Post subject: |
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schnarre wrote: | 1) I use 1st Ed. scaling rules--any fighter's soak roll dice that exceed the die cap are discarded (so if the fighter rolls all '6's, the weapon deals the full amount rolled). |
This, I think, is the key issue. WEG had a rule that worked in 1E, then changed the rule for 2E and 2R&E without considering how that change in rules threw off balance for other rules. A weapon that was relatively effective under 1E becomes basically useless in later versions... _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16174 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 2:33 am Post subject: |
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Another thing to consider for Flak rules is allowing ships to screen for other ships. For instance, in an attack run, more fragile or valuable ships could fall in behind escorting starships whose presence would provide added defense against a flak pattern or other anti-starfighter weaponry.... _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14031 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 2:55 am Post subject: |
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Or one ship does it close TO an enemy ship, to try and prevent fighters from launching! _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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