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Balanced Race stats
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evilnerf
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Joined: 11 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Balanced Race stats Reply with quote

So looking at REUP, I noticed that there was a lot of races that were extra weak or extra strong compared to others. Rather then go through and rework racial abilities, I decided a more elegant solution was to use Racial Attribute dice by giving weak races a bump and string races a small handicap,

Here is what I came up with, anything not on this list is as presented in REUP
Anzati: 11D
Aqualish: 13D
Barabel: 11D
Bith: 13D
Bothan 13D
Cathar: 13D
Cerean: 13D
Defel: 11D
Devaronian 13D
Dug: 13D
Duro: 11D
Falleen: 11D
Gamorrean: 12D
Geonosian Worker: 12D
Humans:13D
Hutt: 12D
Ithorian: 13D
Kaminoan 13D
Kel Dor: 13D
Mon Calamari: 13D
Nautolan: 13D
Quarren: 13D
Rodian 13D
Sullustan: 13D
Talz: 13D
Umbaran 13D
Verpine: 11D
Weequay: 13D
Wookiee: 11D
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Whill
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Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, The Whills Universe

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But as far as typical or average stats, not all species are evolved equally. Species and NPCs do not need to be balanced to each other, only PCs do.

I think a much simpler solution for PC game balance is to just toss the 'species typical attribute dice total +6D' rule for PCs. Just make all PCs of any species have exactly 18D in attributes, no more, no less. That way species can continue to be unequal like they should be and PCs can be balanced like they should be.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wookiees are just stronger than Humans, period.
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evilnerf
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
But as far as typical or average stats, not all species are evolved equally. Species and NPCs do not need to be balanced to each other, only PCs do.

I think a much simpler solution for PC game balance is to just toss the 'species typical attribute dice total +6D' rule for PCs. Just make all PCs of any species have exactly 18D in attributes, no more, no less. That way species can continue to be unequal like they should be and PCs can be balanced like they should be.


Whether they evolve equally or not is irrelevant since racial attribute dice is purely a gameplay construct and besides, debating the scientific accuracy of this game about space wizards is laughable. It's not even based on existing lore. Why are Nautolans just generally worse then humans and Anzati just generally better then literally everyone?

My goal here is not to make all races equal either. Wookiees are still strong. They just aren't now super strong but have one less dice to play with relative to Humans or Bothans who lack the super strength.

There rules aren't meant for NPCs. If you want to start your big mean boss Gamorrean extra awesome, you can still plop more dice on there and make him better, or make your street rat human have 2s in all attributes,

These are meant to make starting players more on par at the start, this is not some revolutionary idea in game design. Most systems do this. Strengths and weaknesses,
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wookiees are super strong.



Also, one thing that is nifty about WEG's D6 rule set is that a character's attributes aren't static. They're a range. A character with STR 1D has an effective STR of 1-6. STR 2D has a STR of 2-12, which means that a character with a 1D STR can easily have a better rating on a roll than a character with 2D STR.

Therefore, I don't think balancing is really needed.

You should play your game for your maximum enjoyment, of course. But, I disagree with the need to balance racial attributes.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

evilnerf wrote:
Whill wrote:
But as far as typical or average stats, not all species are evolved equally. Species and NPCs do not need to be balanced to each other, only PCs do.

I think a much simpler solution for PC game balance is to just toss the 'species typical attribute dice total +6D' rule for PCs. Just make all PCs of any species have exactly 18D in attributes, no more, no less. That way species can continue to be unequal like they should be and PCs can be balanced like they should be.

Whether they evolve equally or not is irrelevant since racial attribute dice is purely a gameplay construct and besides, debating the scientific accuracy of this game about space wizards is laughable. It's not even based on existing lore. Why are Nautolans just generally worse then humans and Anzati just generally better then literally everyone?

My goal here is not to make all races equal either. Wookiees are still strong. They just aren't now super strong but have one less dice to play with relative to Humans or Bothans who lack the super strength.

There rules aren't meant for NPCs. If you want to start your big mean boss Gamorrean extra awesome, you can still plop more dice on there and make him better, or make your street rat human have 2s in all attributes,

These are meant to make starting players more on par at the start, this is not some revolutionary idea in game design. Most systems do this. Strengths and weaknesses,

No one was debating the scientific accuracy of the this game but I'm glad you got a laugh out of thinking so.

I see I had misunderstood your OP because I didn't read it closely enough. I now realize that by the word "string" you really meant "strong". When I saw all the typical total attribute dice and the word weak, I was not thinking about the one attribute Strength. I thought you meant overall low attribute species. Now I think I understand your premise to be that Strength is the most important attribute for balance concerns - Low Strength species should get an overall attribute boost, and high Strength species should get an overall attribute reduction. Please completely disregard my previous post.

You may be onto something in that PC Strength is key to balance. In my system where every PC of any species has exactly 18D of attributes, higher Strength only affects PCs by reducing the total dice available for other attributes. But if Strength is more valuable than the other attributes, then high Strength species PCs may have an advantage over lower Strength characters that is not addressed by RAW or my system.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but in this line of thinking if any attribute gives PCs a greater advantage in my game I would think it would be Dexterity. I emphasize to players that not getting hit by attacks in the first place is better than resisting more damage with Strength. So Dodge (and Blaster) tend to be important to some extent for all characters.

The very premise of the game is that the six attributes are equally valued. Like all game balance concerns, how true that is in play depends at least partially on the GM. For example, the common "dump stat" of Knowledge is important in my game because I make it important. All these years I've worked to make the attributes fairly equal in value by adventure design, so I'll continue sticking the game's premise and not value Strength, Dexterity or any other attribute more than the others. But of course, to each GM his own. I do applaud that you are even concerned with PC game balance, since it seems that there are a fair share of GMs who aren't.

You've made it clear your proposed system only applies to PCs. A problem I see with it is that weaker PCs of a strong species are penalized the same as stronger members are. What if a player wants to play a Wookiee with only 3D Strength? That's well under human max but the PC would still have 1D less in attributes because his species is stronger. If you are devoted to your premise that Strength is more valuable for PCs than the other attributes, might I suggest an alternative that instead of putting the fix on the whole species typical dice based on species max and min Strength values, you implement something at the actual PC level based on individual PC Strength. For example, while each species still has their respective Strength attribute dice range, for each pip a PC has above 4D Strength, it costs two pips from the total 18D (or whatever PC total attribute die value it is for that species), and then for each pip a PC has under 3D Strength, the PC gets an extra pip to be allocated to other attributes. Here's a chart just to better visualize:

PC
STR . (Cost)

2D ... (1D)
2D+1 (1D+2)
2D+2 (2D+1)
3D ... (3D)
3D+1 (3D+1)
3D+2 (3D+2)
4D ... (4D)
4D+1 (4D+2)
4D+2 (5D+1)
5D ... (6D)
and so on...

Example: Wookiee PCs have an 18D base total attributes. Matt wants to play a Wookiee with 5D Strength which costs 6D to have, so Matt has 12D remaining to allocate to his PC's other five attributes. Sean wants to play a weak Wookiee with the species min 2D+2 in Strength, which costs 2D+1 to have, so Sean has 15D+2 to allocate to his PC's other attributes.

Sean's PC shouldn't be penalized because his PC's species as a whole are so strong. Since your proposal is for the sake of PC game balance, my suggestions values strong and weaker PCs regardless of their species, but has no effect on the rest of their species. Anyway, it's just a friendly suggestion. Use it as is, tweak it, ignore it, whatever works for you. Peace.
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"Would you trade that necklace for a glimpse into your future? ...What do you know of kyber crystals?"
"The Force moves darkly near a creature that’s about to kill... I'm gonna follow Jyn. Her path is clear."

"Tell that to Kanjiklub."
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Naaman
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a huge proponent of story/plot driven balance. A perfect example of this is LotR: Frodo... really?

Having said that, the value of the Strength attribute is entirely dependent on how often it is required to be rolled and to a certain extent, the lethality of weapons used against the PCs.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Whill already said, though, the game is already balanced. Each character race has the same amount of dice to spread around when the character is generated. That's balance.
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