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WH40K Space Marines
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ninja-Bear wrote:
Except.they aren't equivalent. Imperium of man is not so much xenophobic as just about any aliens are out to destroy the human race. The Imperium is portrayed as doing bad for hings because if not then worse things happen. For example they sacrifice thousands of psykers for the Emperor because if they don't then the Emperor dies and all the warp lanes closes and all the Dark Gods devour mankind.

I doubt it makes that much of a difference to the average citizen. Whether a citizen of the Empire or the Imperium, they are trapped in a totalitarian system that sees its citizenry as exploitable assets.

The problem with doing a crossover is that you are never going to make a 100% match between two different genres. Each follows its own rules. In this case, each universe features a vast, powerful, human-dominated totalitarian government; the Empire in the SWU and the Imperium of Man in Warhammer 40K. There is not enough room in the galaxy for two such organizations, so to capture as much of the spirit of the crossover as possible, some sacrifices must be made. Since we game in the Star Wars universe, my feeling has always been that concepts crossed over from other universes should be subordinated to the Star Wars Universe. As such, since Space Marines are a symbol of the Imperium of Man in the WH40K universe, their best fit in the SWU is as part of the Empire. YMMV.
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RedKnight
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genetically enhanced/cyberetically enhanced Storm troopers in dark trooper suits....or just a normal stormie in a Dark Trooper is pretty much a space marine as far as hitting power.
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Whill
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Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:31 am    Post subject: Re: Space Marines Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Whill wrote:
Super-stormtroopers, biologically enhanced with implants?! "We offered the galaxy order!" Superior ability breeds superior ambition, so the danger would be high that an army of super-stormtroopers could turn on the Empire. The clone army was more skilled than their stormtrooper successors because the clone army had to execute Order 66 and decimate the Jedi Order. Imperial stormtroopers just had to outnumber their enemies - They were so dime-a-dozen. And even if a stormtrooper army went rogue, the Empire would only have to get a bigger stormtrooper army to take care of them (or just outsmart them). I can maybe see a small special unit of these super-stormtroopers, but not a large army. If there would ever be armies of biologically enhanced super-soldiers with implants it would have been in the Clone Wars, and since there weren't, to me it just seems out of place for the Empire to have them. But also like Skyler said, the idea of them being a non-Imperial unit has more merit to me.

But it's clear from the EU that weapons development didn't just stop with the end of the Clone Wars.

Weapons don't turn on the Emperor themselves. Sentients do that. Nothing I said in any way implies that weaponry and technology didn't or shouldn't progress during the Empire. Technological terrorism is what the Empire does. I was responding only to the idea of biologically enhanced stormtroopers with implants. Stormtroopers are sentient and there is a loyalty concern that is not applicable in the same way to technology itself.

CRMcNeill wrote:
Look at the Dark Trooper Project, for example. As the EU fleshed out, there was a progression toward more and more elite units. TIE Fighters began as mass-produced, disposable starships, but by Endor, the Empire was experimenting with the most advanced starfighters in existence (TIE Defenders).

No, I don't want to look at the Dark Trooper Project or TIE Defenders. You're so reasonable most of the time I forget that you embrace EU in its near-entirety. I reject most all video game continuity. It's silly by and large.

CRMcNeill wrote:
There is also the elite corps of the Imperial Guard (the Force-Sensitive Sovereign Protectors).

For that matter, how is it that the Emperor's Guards had 5D Dexterity? Augmented human clones, maybe?

That would be a good explanation, but that's putting the cart before the horse. I don't base my game world on the game stats. I base my game stats on the world as seen primarily in the films, with some Legends and Canon publishing, and some personal stuff thrown in. I'm pretty sure I have never came up with alternative fluff explanations just to justify RAW stats.

I've never played warhammer and I'm sorry I can't contribute to your crossover concept and stats discussion. You know I love your work and I hope this helps those who are interested in this idea. Like I said, I can see small units but not large armies of super-soldiers. Overconfidence is Palpatine's weakness, but he's not so stupid to create a large army of powerful beings that would likely turn out too difficult to control. The Sith were small in numbers for a reason and think that speaks volumes of his mentality.

I thought of the idea of neo-separatists trying to get the best of both worlds (droids and clones) by making cyborg clones for an early Empire conflict to better fulfill the pluralism of the Clone Wars. This one is clones vs. clones with some Jedi survivors fighting against the Empire, and of course the Empire wins this war.
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure I'd refer to the Sovereign Protectors. I think that the Imperial Sentinels are closer to the idea of augmented humans. Also, the Imperial Sentinels were explicitly mutated and enhanced, while the Sovereign Protectors were best-of-the-best to the nth degree.

If we venture into the despicable lands of vidya gamez, there's the Eternal Fleet of the Eternal Empire to consider. It was a fleet of ships staffed entirely by droids, built by (yet another) unknown race. A fleet suggests they had enemies, and having a race or a cache of biological technology that can modify individuals might be what that fleet was built to oppose.

Basically, if some faction manages to find technology that allows extensive biomodifications (Tyranid-like?), they might be able to build something that looks a lot like Space Marines.
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RedKnight
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

how can you ignore Dark Forces and Tie Fighter......the best games in the EU. also SWG where dark troopers show up again as super storm troopers. lots of evidence of space marine esque troopers in the EU.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedKnight wrote:
how can you ignore Dark Forces and Tie Fighter......the best games in the EU. also SWG where dark troopers show up again as super storm troopers.

I'm not speaking of the quality of the games, as games. I'm speaking more of ignoring video game continuity for the sake of my RPG SWU. The "reality" of the video game world seems way off from the films, regardless of how fun the games may be to play as games.
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Ninja-Bear
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Ninja-Bear wrote:
Except.they aren't equivalent. Imperium of man is not so much xenophobic as just about any aliens are out to destroy the human race. The Imperium is portrayed as doing bad for hings because if not then worse things happen. For example they sacrifice thousands of psykers for the Emperor because if they don't then the Emperor dies and all the warp lanes closes and all the Dark Gods devour mankind.

I doubt it makes that much of a difference to the average citizen. Whether a citizen of the Empire or the Imperium, they are trapped in a totalitarian system that sees its citizenry as exploitable assets.

The problem with doing a crossover is that you are never going to make a 100% match between two different genres. Each follows its own rules. In this case, each universe features a vast, powerful, human-dominated totalitarian government; the Empire in the SWU and the Imperium of Man in Warhammer 40K. There is not enough room in the galaxy for two such organizations, so to capture as much of the spirit of the crossover as possible, some sacrifices must be made. Since we game in the Star Wars universe, my feeling has always been that concepts crossed over from other universes should be subordinated to the Star Wars Universe. As such, since Space Marines are a symbol of the Imperium of Man in the WH40K universe, their best fit in the SWU is as part of the Empire. YMMV.


Well have you looked at.Khaos.Marines? They.scream Sith Alchemy! ; )

You know I can easily see.a.scenerio where regular Space Maarines are part of some hidden secluded sector and the Empire wantss that technology.
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RedKnight
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phase Zero Dark Troopers, why didnt i think about that one before - cybernetically augmented clone wars veterans in advanced combat armor with jump packs....assault Marines.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Space Marines Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I've never played warhammer and I'm sorry I can't contribute to your crossover concept and stats discussion. You know I love your work and I hope this helps those who are interested in this idea. Like I said, I can see small units but not large armies of super-soldiers. Overconfidence is Palpatine's weakness, but he's not so stupid to create a large army of powerful beings that would likely turn out too difficult to control. The Sith were small in numbers for a reason and think that speaks volumes of his mentality.

Actually, small numbers was one of the main off-setting weaknesses of the Space Marines in WH40K. Space Marines were rarely fielded in units larger than company or battalion strength. The difficulty of producing both the candidates and their implants kept their numbers from ballooning too far. As such, they were reserved for strikes against high-value targets, as well as to keep watch on potentially disloyal planets and the like. The Imperial Sourcebook mentions that the main bottleneck in expansion of the Army is the Navy's ability to transport troops, so viewed from that perspective, an elite fighting force of a hundred or so super-soldiers would be much more cost effective when attacking a high-value target.
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dunderhead marajain


Last edited by CRMcNeill on Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:34 pm; edited 2 times in total
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 10562
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ninja-Bear wrote:
Well have you looked at Chaos Marines? They scream Sith Alchemy! ; )

Yes, but it would be Sith Alchemy in addition to the Space Marine implants.

Quote:
You know I can easily see a scenario where regular Space Marines are part of some hidden secluded sector and the Empire wants that technology.

As I mentioned above, I'm more interested in focusing on the details of the Marines themselves. Narrowing the focus and keeping the backstory to a minimum would make it easier for GMs to use such a being as they see fit.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
dunderhead marajain
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedKnight wrote:
Phase Zero Dark Troopers, why didnt i think about that one before - cybernetically augmented clone wars veterans in advanced combat armor with jump packs....assault Marines.

Superficially, maybe, but the uniqueness of the Space Marines would be pretty seriously diluted if their enhancements were purely cybernetic in nature, as opposed to bioware.
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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did this several years ago, supposedly on this forum..
Based on the heavier Terminators of the 40k universe..
Someone here actually helped make the pic in the art thread.

Inquisitor tremains special troopers..

Ah, here it is..

http://www.rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2905&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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