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Skill Points vs. Character Points
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Telsij
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 5:17 pm    Post subject: Skill Points vs. Character Points Reply with quote

Ahoy all! Revisiting 1E in PbP after many moons away (and long after incorporating it and Intro Adv Games streamlined skills into my 2E houserules) and I just wanted to confirm that this was the case. If this is already a topic elsewhere and I was just unable to locate it via Search, Moderators pls lock or delete, etc.

1. Players cannot use skill points during the game, unlike the way in which one could use Character Points in-game to boost a die roll in 2E, correct? I believe that this is the case from scanning the 1E rules anew, but I did want to confirm with others live eyes.

2. Starting PCs all start with 0 skill points, correct? PCs only get the skill points as an end-of-adventure / post-scene / "downtime" award to use toward skill advancement?

Many thanks in advance, Pit Denizens!


Last edited by Telsij on Thu May 25, 2017 8:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Skill Points vs. Character Points Reply with quote

Telsij wrote:
Ahoy all! Revisiting 1E after many moons in PbP (and long after incorporating it and Intro Adv Games streamlined skills into my 2E houserules) and I just wanted to confirm that this was the case. Moderators pls lock or delete if this is already a topic elsewhere and I was just unable to locate it via Search.


1E is DA BOMB! In my opinion.

Actually, all editions of D6 Star Wars are FANTASTIC in my book, but if you press me for a favorite, it is, indeed, First Edition.

1E is a stripped down, bare boned, all muscle race car. It is engine, and tires, and little else. It is made to GO!

Zoom, zoom!





Quote:


SO: Starting PCs all start with 0 skill points, correct? PCs only get the skill points as an end-of-adventure / post-scene / "downtime" award to use toward skill advancement?


Correct. And, I advice you to be stingy with them. Awarding 1 skill point per game session may be too much.

I suggest you read a few posts in THIS THREAD. Start with my post I wrote on May 21 @ 10:17 and read through to my post on May 22 @ 4:10. That discusses the awards of skill points in 1E.



Quote:
Players cannot use skill points during the game, like one could use Character Points in-game to boost a die roll in 2E? I believe that this is the case from scanning the 1E rules anew, but I did want to confirm with others live eyes.


Yes, Skill Points are only used for improving skills and attributes. You do not use them as you can a Character Point to also improve a task roll.

They're like Experience Points.
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Telsij
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahoy & thank you for the heads up, Wajeb Deb Kaadeb!

Though I cut my teeth on 2E and played that most as a kid, 1E mechanics did creep in over the years after playing a handful of times and enjoying its streamlined skill list and many of its grab-and-go mechanics. The thread you linked to has already been quite helpful. (Pardon any thread duplication, etc.)
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have both Skill Points and Character Points in my game. SPs are awarded as the base reward for adventures, like experience points. CPs are the bonus points for good roleplaying, etc. Both points work like they do in their respective RAWs. SPs can only be used to improve skills. CPs can be used as SPs, but CPs can also be used to improve Move scores, burned in play to improve rolls, etc.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I have both Skill Points and Character Points in my game. SPs are awarded as the base reward for adventures, like experience points. CPs are the bonus points for good roleplaying, etc. Both points work like they do in their respective RAWs. SPs can only be used to improve skills. CPs can be used as SPs, but CPs can also be used to improve Move scores, burned in play to improve rolls, etc.
I'm curious, why did you decide to use two currencies with one (CPs) overlapping the other?
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
Whill wrote:
I have both Skill Points and Character Points in my game. SPs are awarded as the base reward for adventures, like experience points. CPs are the bonus points for good roleplaying, etc. Both points work like they do in their respective RAWs. SPs can only be used to improve skills. CPs can be used as SPs, but CPs can also be used to improve Move scores, burned in play to improve rolls, etc.
I'm curious, why did you decide to use two currencies with one (CPs) overlapping the other?


My guess is CPs aren't used as Skill Points. He's got CPs for in-game use, and SPs for experience.

In my Star Wars games where I used CPs, as per 2E, my players almost never improved skills. They always used their CPs in-game, even when they really didn't have to, in my opinion.

The ending characters, after a campaign that took us seven real years to play, ended with the characters looking pretty much the same as they did fresh out of chargen.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Bren wrote:
Whill wrote:
I have both Skill Points and Character Points in my game. SPs are awarded as the base reward for adventures, like experience points. CPs are the bonus points for good roleplaying, etc. Both points work like they do in their respective RAWs. SPs can only be used to improve skills. CPs can be used as SPs, but CPs can also be used to improve Move scores, burned in play to improve rolls, etc.

I'm curious, why did you decide to use two currencies with one (CPs) overlapping the other?

My guess is CPs aren't used as Skill Points. He's got CPs for in-game use, and SPs for experience.

In my Star Wars games where I used CPs, as per 2E, my players almost never improved skills. They always used their CPs in-game, even when they really didn't have to, in my opinion.

The ending characters, after a campaign that took us seven real years to play, ended with the characters looking pretty much the same as they did fresh out of chargen.

Yes. Players that never improve their PCs' skills and only burn CPs for the temporary boost in-play tend to fall behind the other PCs and can't hang in the long term. Some PCs gaining a lot less experience than others also challenges my disbelief suspension. If the base points awarded for an adventure (which will usually be the same for every PC that went through the adventure) can only be used to improve skills, the PCs stay within a shorter range of each other in general skill level.

CPs always were able to be used in both ways so that overlap is nothing new. The bonus point awards for adventures being CPs still gives each player the option to use them as more skill points or for the other uses. So really I am still 2e RAW in this respect except some of the points can only be used to improved skills. I had already ran several long-term campaigns before 2e came out. (One year I had three separate player groups and ran campaigns for them simultaneously - Yes I was king of the nerds in high school.) I feel my method is a nice compromise between 1e which didn't have the in-play temp bonus option and 2e which has no requirement to ever improve skills.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For 1e days, did the amount of SP awarded drop compared to 2e's CP?
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Bren
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Players that never improve their PCs' skills and only burn CPs for the temporary boost in-play tend to fall behind the other PCs and can't hang in the long term. Some PCs gaining a lot less experience than others also challenges my disbelief suspension. If the base points awarded for an adventure (which will usually be the same for every PC that went through the adventure) can only be used to improve skills, the PCs stay within a shorter range of each other in general skill level.

CPs always were able to be used in both ways so that overlap is nothing new. The bonus point awards for adventures being CPs still gives each player the option to use them as more skill points or for the other uses. So really I am still 2e RAW in this respect except some of the points can only be used to improved skills. I had already ran several long-term campaigns before 2e came out. (One year I had three separate player groups and ran campaigns for them simultaneously - Yes I was king of the nerds in high school.) I feel my method is a nice compromise between 1e which didn't have the in-play temp bonus option and 2e which has no requirement to ever improve skills.
That makes sense. Effectively I did something similar by giving net CP awards. So the players who used a lot of CPs on a multi-session adventure would get a somewhat larger award at the end than would the players who didn't use any (or very few) CPs.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
For 1e days, did the amount of SP awarded drop compared to 2e's CP?


I think 1E SP awards are lower than 2E CP awards, but I'm not sure.

1E suggests no less than 3 and no more than 10 for an entire adventure. Adventures average five episodes (guidelines are given in the 1E rulebook).

And, SPs should be awarded at the end of an adventure, not before.

So, figure, as an average, that 1E characters should get 6-7 SPs per adventure, depending on how well they did, from a full range of 3-10.



I've got a few 1E adventures at hand, so I'll report about them for comparison's sake.

CRISIS ON CLOUD CITY has 6 episodes and recommends an award of 6-12 points (which breaks the core rule book's max of 10 per adventure). Average is 9-10.

DOMAIN OF EVIL has 6 episodes and is considered an adventure intended for advanced play. The adventure recommends 6-12 SPs, averaging 9-10.

BATTLE FOR THE GOLDEN SUN has 6 episodes, and 2-8 SPs are recommended, for an average of 5 points. Note, though, that during this adventure, a single PC can gain the SENSE Force skill at 1D--so maybe that's why the SP awards are lower.

BLACK ICE has 6 episodes, and recommends 6-12 SPs. Average is 9-10.

GRAVEYARD OF ALDERAAN has 4 episodes and recommends a tiered system for awarding SPs.

The entire goal is made up of two smaller goals. If the players succeed at small goal 1, they get 4 SPs. If they succeed at small goal 2, then they get 3 SPs. And, if they succeed at both, then they get 7 SPs.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
garhkal wrote:
For 1e days, did the amount of SP awarded drop compared to 2e's CP?

I think 1E SP awards are lower than 2E CP awards, but I'm not sure.

1E suggests no less than 3 and no more than 10 for an entire adventure. Adventures average five episodes (guidelines are given in the 1E rulebook).

And, SPs should be awarded at the end of an adventure, not before.

So, figure, as an average, that 1E characters should get 6-7 SPs per adventure, depending on how well they did, from a full range of 3-10.


I've got a few 1E adventures at hand, so I'll report about them for comparison's sake.

CRISIS ON CLOUD CITY has 6 episodes and recommends an award of 6-12 points (which breaks the core rule book's max of 10 per adventure). Average is 9-10.

DOMAIN OF EVIL has 6 episodes and is considered an adventure intended for advanced play. The adventure recommends 6-12 SPs, averaging 9-10.

BATTLE FOR THE GOLDEN SUN has 6 episodes, and 2-8 SPs are recommended, for an average of 5 points. Note, though, that during this adventure, a single PC can gain the SENSE Force skill at 1D--so maybe that's why the SP awards are lower.

BLACK ICE has 6 episodes, and recommends 6-12 SPs. Average is 9-10.

GRAVEYARD OF ALDERAAN has 4 episodes and recommends a tiered system for awarding SPs.

The entire goal is made up of two smaller goals. If the players succeed at small goal 1, they get 4 SPs. If they succeed at small goal 2, then they get 3 SPs. And, if they succeed at both, then they get 7 SPs.

Published adventures recommended awards are all over the place in 1e and 2e. I think it was Bren that made a whole thread discussing how we each divide up adventures and award CPs (or maybe one thread spun off from the other). To distinguish Episodes as the main saga films, I changed name of RPG adventure "episodes" to "Chapters". My base award is 1 SP per Chapter. My max bonus award is 1 CP per chapter, but a more typical bonus award would be half that. For example, a 6 chapter adventure would on average award about 9 points total (6+3). This seems overall a bit slower advancement than RAW, but my PCs start out a little more advanced than RAW.
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Last edited by Whill on Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Bren
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Published adventures recommended awards are all over the place in 1e and 2e. I think it was Bren that made a whole thread discussing how we each divide up adventures and award CPs (or maybe one thread spun off from the other).
That would be this one.
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