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The Star Wars Canon reset button has been pressed
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Kytross
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fett was boozing and hitting on the Ladies all day.

He got his rep from talking back to Vader, Vader singling him out with 'no disintegrations,' and being the only one in Jabba's palace to put a Blaster on Leia when she pulled out a thermal detonator.
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cynanbloodbane
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny you should mention Fett. Watching the latest trailer I noticed Han, Finn & Ray walking into an old fortress looking place with Mandolorian clan banners hanging all around.
"I know a guy who could get us in... Only problem is that he hates me."
Just a stray thought, but why not have an aging Fett take over the Jabba nitch?
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Teazia
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All you EU lovers need to quickly go watch the Rebels S3 Trailer, you can follow it up with the Celebration Rebels Panel which also has some nice tidbits.

Cheers!
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cynanbloodbane wrote:
Funny you should mention Fett. Watching the latest trailer I noticed Han, Finn & Ray walking into an old fortress looking place with Mandolorian clan banners hanging all around.
"I know a guy who could get us in... Only problem is that he hates me."
Just a stray thought, but why not have an aging Fett take over the Jabba nitch?


I heard someone else mention that was in a preview somewhere, but don't remember seeing it IN the film? Did it get cut?
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll be honest... I've been watching the Clone Wars series, and it's becoming my new canon.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:14 am    Post subject: Re: The Star Wars Canon reset button has been pressed Reply with quote

Error wrote:
Though I love seeing them on the screen, putting TIE/D in Rebels was kind of a d!ck move on Disney's part. It flies in the face of Legends continuity and it's going to require retcons in multiple media to align the event with the remaining Legends continuity. (Or Disney just won't bother, because they obviously fiat-ed the things into the show because they looked cool and not for any other reason.) Anyone working on Rebels who had even a basic idea of in-universe TIE fighter development/use would have stuck with the new ship of the TIE line which the first Inquisitor flew, or the TIE Advanced x1 which Vader flew, and either continued to develop original craft which did not kick sand in the face of continuity or addressed the need for a cool-looking new tool for the Empire some other way. Even though it's my favorite fighter, in the original continuity, Defenders weren't even developed until late in the year that happened between the battles of Hoth and Endor, just before Zaarin's insurrection and just after Vice Admiral Thrawn's secret promotion to Grand Admiral.

Ugh. It makes my stomach sour when writers (WRITERS!) think that just plucking tidbits from SWU other media and inserting them into their shows is like doing us a favor. It's not even an easter egg like a TIE/D on a coffee mug in the background or something. Even though it's my favorite fighter, I'm actually a little mad at the writers over at Disney for this. They basically took a rare, expensive, special ship, which was not at Endor (or later) for reasons stated by someone above, and stuck it in their show without doing any research first. Or maybe they did the research, debated it, and still came to the wrong conclusion: use it cuz it looks cool hur hur hur we need money hur hur hur and we know Error over at the Rancor Pit is now more likely to buy the DVD's hur hur hur.

It was announced in April 2014 that the new canon could and would fly in the face of Legends continuity. Like how in canon universe there's no Ben Skywalker or Jayna, Jacen and Anakin Solo, right? Like how Chewbacca is still alive 34 years ABY, and Han Solo is dead, you know? Disney doesn't have to align any canon event with the remaining Legends continuity.

When canon continuity does contradict the EU, it is not retconning. The canon universe and the expanded universe are separate universes with only partial commonality between them. The EU still exists and it is even still expanding, albeit much more slowly than before (The current FFG RPG is set in the EU, not the canon universe). The "in-universe TIE fighter development" you refer to is a different universe from the canon universe.

Error wrote:
Sorry, I'm mad!

You've had over two and half years to accept this, and you are still that mad about it? We actually have a Star Wars Multiverse. The Canon Universe, the Expanded Universe, and each fan's universe. The good news is that your personal SW universe can be whatever you want it to be. If you want to ignore TIE Defenders in Rebels and have your universe's TIE fighter development match what it was in the EU, then you have the right and power to do that. My personal SWU is a blend of canon, legends and my own invention. Make your own mix to your liking. Best wishes.
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Error
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:40 am    Post subject: Re: The Star Wars Canon reset button has been pressed Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Error wrote:
Though I love seeing them on the screen, putting TIE/D in Rebels was kind of a d!ck move on Disney's part. It flies in the face of Legends continuity and it's going to require retcons in multiple media to align the event with the remaining Legends continuity. (Or Disney just won't bother, because they obviously fiat-ed the things into the show because they looked cool and not for any other reason.) Anyone working on Rebels who had even a basic idea of in-universe TIE fighter development/use would have stuck with the new ship of the TIE line which the first Inquisitor flew, or the TIE Advanced x1 which Vader flew, and either continued to develop original craft which did not kick sand in the face of continuity or addressed the need for a cool-looking new tool for the Empire some other way. Even though it's my favorite fighter, in the original continuity, Defenders weren't even developed until late in the year that happened between the battles of Hoth and Endor, just before Zaarin's insurrection and just after Vice Admiral Thrawn's secret promotion to Grand Admiral.

Ugh. It makes my stomach sour when writers (WRITERS!) think that just plucking tidbits from SWU other media and inserting them into their shows is like doing us a favor. It's not even an easter egg like a TIE/D on a coffee mug in the background or something. Even though it's my favorite fighter, I'm actually a little mad at the writers over at Disney for this. They basically took a rare, expensive, special ship, which was not at Endor (or later) for reasons stated by someone above, and stuck it in their show without doing any research first. Or maybe they did the research, debated it, and still came to the wrong conclusion: use it cuz it looks cool hur hur hur we need money hur hur hur and we know Error over at the Rancor Pit is now more likely to buy the DVD's hur hur hur.

It was announced in April 2014 that the new canon could and would fly in the face of Legends continuity. Like how in canon universe there's no Ben Skywalker or Jayna, Jacen and Anakin Solo, right? Like how Chewbacca is still alive 34 years ABY, and Han Solo is dead, you know? Disney doesn't have to align any canon event with the remaining Legends continuity.

When canon continuity does contradict the EU, it is not retconning. The canon universe and the expanded universe are separate universes with only partial commonality between them. The EU still exists and it is even still expanding, albeit much more slowly than before (The current FFG RPG is set in the EU, not the canon universe). The "in-universe TIE fighter development" you refer to is a different universe from the canon universe.

Error wrote:
Sorry, I'm mad!

You've had over two and half years to accept this, and you are still that mad about it? We actually have a Star Wars Multiverse. The Canon Universe, the Expanded Universe, and each fan's universe. The good news is that your personal SW universe can be whatever you want it to be. If you want to ignore TIE Defenders in Rebels and have your universe's TIE fighter development match what it was in the EU, then you have the right and power to do that. My personal SWU is a blend of canon, legends and my own invention. Make your own mix to your liking. Best wishes.

I was just momentarily mad about this specific thing, that's all. You're right that I used "retcon" incorrectly, though there still needs to be an in-canonical-universe which has to explain how the Empire had them at the time of Rebels but didn't use them apparently AT ALL afterward.

I knew that Disney was going to disregard Legends...but the thing is, they seem to stick to it in the background anyway. Even the latest two movies paid close attention to the EU stuff as well.

My main b**** is writers. Writers who were either directed (or took it upon themselves) to cherrypick the coolest stuff in the EU, insert it into a canonical source, and then the rest of us who have noticed their tendency to consider EU sources ANYWAY when developing a movie, we have to deal with it.

I know they don't -have- to do anything with the stuff, it's now their property. But TIE/D in Rebels and not on the Death Star at Yavin? Makes zero sense and was in my estimation an irresponsible thing to insert. There are plenty of ways to make interesting TIE's (the configs are unlimited), so why not make a different craft instead of picking the best bits out of the EU? They did it with the first Inquisitor's TIE fighter. Why not stick to doing that? Because money.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And cherry picking a few things while ignoring the rest is imo a disservice of sorts, to all of us who KEPT the love for Star wars alive THROUGH the EU and West End Games.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree they have canonized a surprising amount of EU continuity, but they are free to cherry pick and do. Hitting the reset button just allows them to contradict the EU if they wish. Creative freedom, not to disregard the EU altogether. Just to not be tied down.
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Error
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I agree they have canonized a surprising amount of EU continuity, but they are free to cherry pick and do. Hitting the reset button just allows them to contradict the EU if they wish. Creative freedom, not to disregard the EU altogether. Just to not be tied down.

Once again, I understand that. Always have, and I expected things like this to happen. It's just my response to a specific element. Disney owns Star Wars. Yada yada yada.

If they had plucked the missile boat out and started using it instead, I wouldn't have had such an emotionally negative response. That's because I don't care about that craft. TIE/D's just got close to my heart because I played TIE Fighter (with its expansion, Defender of the Empire) for years. I believe it had three difficulty levels and I beat them all. The ship was just close to my heart and it makes me sad to see the Legends stuff (basically the existing lore behind the ship) in my opinion vitiated.

A thing I will say is that Disney owning Star Wars legally, and having the right to cherry pick and alter, doesn't mean that exercising that right is a good idea. Plucking things out of various preceding media and inserting them (seemingly willy-nilly sometimes) is not always a good or a responsible idea, or even an informed "creative decision".* One of the conceptual artists could draw you a never-before-seen TIE fighter in an hour.

* Except when it is, of course.


Related to "the wisdom of exercising rights":

In my town (Ann Arbor, MI, home to the University of Michigan) we have a unique element to the inner city streets: pedestrians have a strong right of way. Suppose you're in a car; you can't go even if the light is green if there are students on foot in the road. It doesn't even matter if they're in a crosswalk or not. Which makes a lot of sense, right? Protect the students. We wouldn't want to have to send young Ling back to China, killed at university.

The problem is that these students blindly plunge across streets with their faces in their phones, not even looking. In droves. And most of the time they're not even in the crosswalk. But they know you have to stop for them, and their observations up until now say that cars will stop for them wherever. So they don't look and they don't seem to care, especially when a bus or line of cars is held up for 3-5 minutes while they're crossing in huge groups. No one of them stops on the side of the road and says "Hey, we should let these cars pass, maybe." That's all well and good. (I think they need crossing guards at peak times.)

Here's the thing though...if you get killed crossing a street in Ann Arbor, if that driver has a nonviolent record andeven bettercan show that you just basically walked out in front of him or her (there are cameras everywhere for this purpose), that person will do less than four years in prison. Probably more like two. But you? You're dead. Or at least maimed. Forever. Not two to four years, forever.

So even though you may have the right to do something, it's not always the best idea to exercise it. Unless, if we're sticking to the comparison, you stop and look both ways first, of course, and that (in this case) means the writers doing appropriate research and not being lazy and cherrypicking.

Besides, whoever "owns" Star Wars doesn't own it at all in the strictest sense. It is owned by us and we vote with our ticket, toy, and game purchases. It belongs to the public and always has since GL wrote "The Journal of the Whills, part 1" in 1973. That is the great truth of great art: Once it comes out of you, it no longer belongs to you. Legally it does, but otherwise, it's not yours anymore. It belongs to the people you sought to entertain. So I argue philosophy here, not legality.
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Toran Ironfinder
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So seeing how this has gone, I have some mixed feelings. Losing Mara Jade Skywalker and some of the material before the prequels (Knights of the Old Republic, Tales of the Jedi and the Great Hyperspace War) are big loses, but the Vong aren't. The funny thing to me is that if they had just left Jacen as the name instead of ben, they could have kept what was good, and thinned out the problem areas.

But they will do as they want. Of course, so will people around here.
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