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Lightsabers and bullets (again)
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:31 am    Post subject: Lightsabers and bullets (again) Reply with quote

I'd always pretty much assumed that a lightsaber would evaporate a bullet nearly instantaneously. Though it looks like someone has done the math in terms of projected heat output and projected contact time with the metal and has come to a different conclusion, similar to something garhkal had said many moons ago.

While it's nothing definitive and in-universe, it is interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8ejiEEun9s
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Bren
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deflecting would use far less energy than vaporizing, magnifying, or liquefying. In the fight on Jabba's Sail Barge Luke appears to hit several of Jabba's guards knocking them off their skiff. They appear to have all their body parts when they fall as if the lightsaber impacted them with some force (small "f"). Based on that, I assume bullets would be deformed and deflected. (The guy in the clip assumes no change in velocity (only a change in temperature and state) when the bullet impacts a lightsaber. No velocity change on impact seems unlikely.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like a drop of water skittering on a hot frying pan.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not even sure that all of a lightsaber's damage is based on heat. Being "hot enough" to cut through anything would make the weapon unbearable to use: proximity to heat that intense would get unbearable quite quickly.

Think about when you barbecue on a large grill, or just sitting too close to a camp fire or bonfire. That is hundreds of degrees, which is nowhere near hot enough to instantly melt through a blast door or effortlessly slice through super battle droids, etc.

Anakin even welds a makeshift wall in a deleted scene from Ep.III.

Sith swords have a special chemical treatment that allows them to withstand lightsaber beams; and phrik alloy seems to have some property that makes it more resistant to the "cut through anything" effect.

I would say that the lightsaber is able to create an effect that is similar to heat, but that the Force is what actually makes the beam as powerful as it is (it gets more powerful as the Jedi does).
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In addition, force fields (essentially, energy fields that behave as solids) are consistent with SW tech. A lightsaber could be generating a field that has both a cutting/heat effect and a hard-light field effect...
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent point. The gungan energy shield can stop things and allow things to pass through it.

Same with the destroyer droids' shields. This is never explained in the films, but a lightsaber could feasibly function according to a similar principle (whatever that may be).
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Bren
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Force fields would at least explain (via handwavium) how lightsaber's can seem to bash people. It would also clarify how a lightsaber can parry a material weapon (like a vibroaxe or a heavy mace) instead of merely bisecting the weapon allowing the two halves to continue moving forward to impact the target.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This reminds me of my long ago Star Trek / Star Wars cross-over adventure. One issue was how lightsaber parry would work given the ability of Trek phasers to emit a continuous beam as opposed to the pulses emitted by Star Warsian blasters and lasercannon.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
This reminds me of my long ago Star Trek / Star Wars cross-over adventure. One issue was how lightsaber parry would work given the ability of Trek phasers to emit a continuous beam as opposed to the pulses emitted by Star Warsian blasters and lasercannon.


You wouldn't bother trying to find out. If you see someone with a lightsaber, you get a transporter lock on them, and transport them 500 meters off the port bow. Let the vacuum of space do the rest.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
You wouldn't bother trying to find out. If you see someone with a lightsaber, you get a transporter lock on them, and transport them 500 meters off the port bow. Let the vacuum of space do the rest.
I meant the GM figuring out, not the players.

Your solution is not really in keeping with how the Federation operates in Star Trek though or were you thinking you were playing Romulans, Cardassians, or Founders? Laughing
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Besides, any issue about founding Romulcassians and whatnot - if it is a recognizably female form, there's likely SOP that requires the on-duty transporter tech to fetch it into the starship. Kirk needs a chance to get his mojo on.

Also, I think cycler rifles, particularly because of their ability to penetrate shields, would be something that modest Jedi would tend to avoid. Which lends credence to the idea that a somewhat large, dense object travelling at speed is something that even a lightsaber has trouble with - at least short term.

And flamethrowers and flechette canisters. Lightsaber combat this, caped crusader man! (Yes, I know Batman is the Caped Crusader, but I didn't manage to make an euphemism for Jedi that wasn't steeped in foul language, so ...)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cycler_rifle
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:


Your solution is not really in keeping with how the Federation operates in Star Trek though or were you thinking you were playing Romulans, Cardassians, or Founders? Laughing


If I were playing the Romulans, I would transport 1,000 metric tonnes of water onto the enemy bridge. And one set of scuba gear, just to watch things get interesting.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
cheshire wrote:
You wouldn't bother trying to find out. If you see someone with a lightsaber, you get a transporter lock on them, and transport them 500 meters off the port bow. Let the vacuum of space do the rest.
I meant the GM figuring out, not the players.

Your solution is not really in keeping with how the Federation operates in Star Trek though or were you thinking you were playing Romulans, Cardassians, or Founders? Laughing


I remember long ago reading one of those old non-canon original series Star trek novels where the Enterprise got captured by a group pf human terrorists who were trying to start a war with the Romulans. Kirk and most of the other senior officers were off somewhere else and left Sulu in charge when the terrorists captured the ship and forced Sulu to take the Enterprise into the Romulan Neutral Zone. The Enterprise gets surrounded by several Romulan ships in short order and the Romulans want to capture the Enterprise rather than destroy it, so they send a boarding party to the Enterprise bridge via transporter. Just as the Romulans are beaming aboard, the head terrorist engages the warp drive and the glowy blobs of the not-yet-materialized Romulans slide out the wall of the bridge and materialize in open space as the Enterprise speeds away. Sulu, forced to watch all of this at gunpoint, then muses that even if the Romulans manage to save their boarding party by beaming them back aboard their own ship before the vacuum kills them, the Romulans will never let the Enterprise get away now.

It's one of the times in Star Trek I can recall the transporter being weaponized like Cheshire suggested (aside from the time that NOMAD was beamed out into open space in "The Changeling" or Mr. Hengist/Jack the Ripper also being beamed into space in "Wolf in the Fold"). Am I forgetting any other instances where the transporter was similarly weaponized?
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