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Alternative Initiative (Based on Shadowrun)
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Bren
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
I suppose you could look at it that way, but I like to think of it as giving someone quick enough the ability to take multiple actions before anyone else.

So, your badass gunslinger can potentially draw and gun down multiple attackers before they can even squeeze a shot off.
Except the gunslinger doesn't get to gun down multiple attackers first. In the OP’s description the person with the 21 initiative only gets their second action after everyone else has taken their first actions and only gets their third action after everyone else is done with their 1st and 2nd actions.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Except the gunslinger doesn't get to gun down multiple attackers first. In the OP’s description the person with the 21 initiative only gets their second action after everyone else has taken their first actions and only gets their third action after everyone else is done with their 1st and 2nd actions.


He does in my house rule.
Quote:

I already house ruled that an additional action can be taken every 5 counts down from the initiative roll, if the character so chooses. So, theoretically, someone who rolls 20 on their initiative can take 5 actions in a round. That same character, if his opponent rolled less than 10 could take 3 actions before the first is even able to act: 1 at 20, 15, & 10.

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Bren
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
He does in my house rule.
Sorry. Of course you are correct. I lost track of which house rule was which.

For the gunfighter effect I much prefer the optional Haste rules that came out between 1E and 2E. The high skill character gets to be like the gunfighter in a Spaghetti Western, without turning Perception into an uber attribute. And the rule also requires a trade off between speed and accuracy. You may fire first (and second and third) if you use enough Haste, but if you apply too much Haste your shots may all miss their target.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a decent way to do it as well.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The downside is it slows down determining effective initiative. This is due to the time it takes the player to decide whether to add Haste and if so how many levels of Haste.
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Straxus
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Which, IME with Shadowrun (3rd edition and earlier) got REALLY frustrating for those who didn't have big initiatives... fights were over before they got to do anything. The other version (everyone gets pass 1, then those with pass 2 get to go again, etc.) is common to later Shadowrun and Palladium, and is a bit less frustrating, simply because they've at least gotten to do something before the combat monsters take over.


Agreed. I've also realized later that our group never really roleplayed out the downsides of wired reflexes and such. So it became a bit OP, especially with the old initiative rules.

Same with Celerity in Vampire: The Masquerade.

One thing I like about Star Wars and MAPs is that everyone can basically do how many actions they want, but depending on your skill level, it makes sense to pace yourself.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been using Shadowrun style initiative for a few years in star wars.

The initiative roll determines how many actions are possible; the player determines how many they actually want to take, with MAPS.

Subtract 10 after each action.

Works great IMO.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see some advantages to allowing multiple passes and hinging that on high initiatives, and using it to determine how many actions one is allowed; the addition of MAPS also keeps people who HAVE high initiatives from necessarily wanting to take all the actions they're entitled to.

How do you handle defenses, in that case? If I roll a 10 or lower, it makes sense for me to only Full Dodge or Full Parry... defend myself as best I can, since I can only do one action that round. If I get two or more actions, however, do I declare "I am taking X actions this turn, and Y are defenses"? Can I scrub a planned action for a defense? If I have an "unused" defense at the end, can I use it to do something else?
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
I can see some advantages to allowing multiple passes and hinging that on high initiatives, and using it to determine how many actions one is allowed; the addition of MAPS also keeps people who HAVE high initiatives from necessarily wanting to take all the actions they're entitled to.

How do you handle defenses, in that case? If I roll a 10 or lower, it makes sense for me to only Full Dodge or Full Parry... defend myself as best I can, since I can only do one action that round. If I get two or more actions, however, do I declare "I am taking X actions this turn, and Y are defenses"? Can I scrub a planned action for a defense? If I have an "unused" defense at the end, can I use it to do something else?


Leads into another house rule for me;

The first defense roll is always at full dice value regardless of the number of actions declared or taken so far.

However taking that defense action applies an additional -1D MAP to any subsequent actions (offensive or defensive.)

The other factor is that each defense drops your own initiative total by 5.
points.

As a result, you can be overwhelmed and not get any actions that round and if your initiative total gets reduced to less than 0 you have a -1D6 to your next initiative roll.

In the case of getting shot at, losing all your actions because you are dodging multiple incoming shots is when you're 'pinned down' with suppressive fire.

'
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