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New Scale System
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strictly speaking, this thread is about Scale, and it just carried over into Planetary Shields as part of a discussion about which of the new Scale Classes the Imperial Garrison Base belonged in.

Also, I decided to alter the modifiers from the Called Shot rules, and use the same +/- 2D step I used for everything else.
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my other answer in the ships thread, I think a Cruiser class between space transports and capital would be a good idea.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZzaphodD wrote:
From my other answer in the ships thread, I think a Cruiser class between space transports and capital would be a good idea.

Here is the Scale System as it currently stands...

For the purposes of this conversation, I kept most Space Transports at the same Scale as Starfighters, but made most of the larger Walker-Scale vehicles 2D higher than Starfighter (and only 2D below Frigate-Scale ships). My reasoning was that, while Space Transports are obviously larger in size than Starfighters, they are still just as fragile, designed for the carrying of cargo instead of absorbing combat damage. The walkers, on the other hand, become major battlefield players, genuinely worth the effort needed to deploy them onto a planet's surface, even capable of threatening corvettes and frigates if used properly.

As far as Capital Ships, I broke it up into three different Scales: Frigate (+10D), Destroyer (+12D) and Dreadnought (+16D), with everything bigger than a Victory (900 meters or more) staying the same scale (with a different name) and anything over 3,000 meters getting bumped up to Dreadnought.

I had thought to use Cruiser-Scale, as well, but because my goal (then) was to change the Scales without appreciably changing the stats, the dividing line I had selected would've put all the WEG Light, Medium and Heavy Cruisers into the Frigate-Scale, not the Cruiser Scale (which I had considered instead of Destroyer-Scale).

The different Scales also play into a couple house rules that serve to make larger ships clumsier and harder to maneuver:
    -If a smaller Scale ship makes a Maneuver, a larger Scale ship attempting to make the same Maneuver is penalized on Maneuverability equal to the difference in Scale modifier. This penalty reduces at a rate of 2D per round, to a minimum of 0D.
      For example, if an ISD is chasing a YT-1300, and the YT-1300 makes a sudden course change (such as a 90-degree dive), the ISD may attempt to follow it through the turn, but does so at a -6D penalty to Maneuverability. They ISD may choose to wait three rounds and make the turn without a penalty, or may wait only 1-2 rounds and accept a lesser penalty of -2D or -4D.

    -Scale also affects acceleration rates. When engaged in combat between ships of different scales, a larger ship must wait an additional round per 2D of Scale modifier to change his Move up or down.
      For example, an ISD is pursuing a Corellian Corvette. As the pursuit begins, the Frigate-Scale Corvette immediately accelerates to All-Out. The larger ISD, however, must wait an additional round to accelerate to All-Out.

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Jollyone
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow!! New here and this thread is long, dated, but well worth the read. I really like the idea of some extra steps in the scale. Never thought of more steps but reading this has opened my eyes some.

I like most everything in the space scale side. Have to look up some stuff and do some numbers in head but looks great.

Question I have is the Walker scale? In the rules it is below Starfighter, here above. I am thinking maybe the same? Like to see the airspeeders have some chance against the walkers. I do see cloud car in starfighter, like that call.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jollyone wrote:
Wow!! New here and this thread is long, dated, but well worth the read. I really like the idea of some extra steps in the scale. Never thought of more steps but reading this has opened my eyes some.

I like most everything in the space scale side. Have to look up some stuff and do some numbers in head but looks great.

Question I have is the Walker scale? In the rules it is below Starfighter, here above. I am thinking maybe the same? Like to see the airspeeders have some chance against the walkers. I do see cloud car in starfighter, like that call.

Under this system, airspeeders would have a chance against smaller walkers like the AT-ST and AT-PT, but the armor on monsters like the AT-AT and Juggernaut would be too strong for their blasters, so they would have to get creative, just as we see in the films.

Here are my stats for the Alliance Combat Airspeeder, complete with homebrew rules for the Harpoon attack.

Also, here is a link to my Stat & House Rule Index. It includes all the WEG stats re-done under this Scale System.
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Jollyone
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice. A lot to go through but liking it so far. Thank you.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
If it helps, I've come up with a few measurements based on the to scale drawings of the AT-AT walker next to the Imperial garrison in the Star Wars Sourcebook. The base length of the Imperial garrison is almost exactly 300 meters, the width is about 270 meters, while the height of the garrison (not including the turbolasers, the laser turrets and the TIE chutes, all of which have little to no space for personnel) is 47.5 meters.

A quick question on this. Was the size comparison you used for this based on the WEG stock length of the AT-AT (20.6 meters) or the 26 meter length generated from screen footage by the Star Wars Technical Commentaries?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
If it helps, I've come up with a few measurements based on the to scale drawings of the AT-AT walker next to the Imperial garrison in the Star Wars Sourcebook. The base length of the Imperial garrison is almost exactly 300 meters, the width is about 270 meters, while the height of the garrison (not including the turbolasers, the laser turrets and the TIE chutes, all of which have little to no space for personnel) is 47.5 meters.

A quick question on this. Was the size comparison you used for this based on the WEG stock length of the AT-AT (20.6 meters) or the 26 meter length generated from screen footage by the Star Wars Technical Commentaries?


I basically eyeballed it by using a ruler to multiply the silhouette of the AT-AT's length in comparison to the garrison. Since it was a diagram in a WEG book, I have to assume that the AT-AT silhouette was the WEG stock length of 20.6 meters. It's not like that diagram had the numbered measurements on it, just the silhouettes.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
I basically eyeballed it by using a ruler to multiply the silhouette of the AT-AT's length in comparison to the garrison. Since it was a diagram in a WEG book, I have to assume that the AT-AT silhouette was the WEG stock length of 20.6 meters. It's not like that diagram had the numbered measurements on it, just the silhouettes.

If that's the case, then it throws off the numbers when I use the SWTC length for the AT-AT. With the larger size, the Garrison Base would be about 380 meters from point to point, 342 meters side to side, and a main structure height of just over 60 meters.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wanted to take a minute to say that I've been using this updated scale system in my last few games, and it's made ship to ship combat much tougher. It also encourages ships to be mounted with a variety of scales of weapons to be able to handle the smaller or larger ships.

Thanks for this!
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
I just wanted to take a minute to say that I've been using this updated scale system in my last few games, and it's made ship to ship combat much tougher. It also encourages ships to be mounted with a variety of scales of weapons to be able to handle the smaller or larger ships.

Thanks for this!

Glad to hear it!

I'm particularly interested in that last sentence; I know I rewrote pretty much all the main stats around the scale system, and incorporated Starfighter-scale weaponry of some type into pretty much every capital ship. Did you make use of any of those? Either way, I'd love to hear any details you'd care to share.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The original scale rules need some update. It’s odd that, for example, an A-Wing, with its speed and maneuverability is so easy to be targeted by sluggish walkers, and at the same time its lasers have more power that AT-AT heavy cannons.
Anyway, team from WotC (d20) also did something similar. Not getting into boring details:
- starfighters are in the lower category than AT-ATs (for stat comparison AT-AT has twice the hull resistance of an X-Wing and 250% more of hull points),
- there are point defense weapons on capital ships, specifically designed to hit small, fast targets (ISD has 10),
- each of the type of vehicles (speeders, walkers, starfighters, capital ships) may belong to 2 or more different size categories.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kinda already did something about that...

Also this, an Index of all my stats and conversions, all of which have been converted over to the alternate scale system in the first link.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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