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Imperial Rank Plaque Colors
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:09 pm    Post subject: Imperial Rank Plaque Colors Reply with quote

Does anyone know what the three colors mean?

Yellow, Blue and Red.

I will take a shot saying red is direct military command, yellow is diplomatic and science and blue being administration and law or something like that
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Whatever you want them to."

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rank_insignia_plaque

Basically, rank insignia are a mess. TESB tried to regularize them, but ROTJ messed up and made everyone a Commander, and it's scattershot from there.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure I am that confused about how they are used.

Commander is both a title and a rank, and seems to be used accordingly.
Same goes with captain and even admirals, commodores and generals.

Moff, though their plaque may vary is a title just as much as a rank, and thus the used or preferred plaque may vary....as with Jerjerod.


I am just curious to what the individual colors mean, do they symbolise areas of authority etc etc.......
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
I am not sure I am that confused about how they are used.

Commander is both a title and a rank, and seems to be used accordingly.
Same goes with captain and even admirals, commodores and generals.

Moff, though their plaque may vary is a title just as much as a rank, and thus the used or preferred plaque may vary....as with Jerjerrod.


I am just curious to what the individual colors mean, do they symbolize areas of authority etc etc.......


Nope, the different colors don't mean anything. It's not like with Star Trek where Gold (or Red) uniforms means Command, Red (or Gold) uniforms means Security and Blue uniforms means Science/Medical. In Star Wars, the colors on the rank badges don't mean anything at all.

And in Star Wars, as you noted, the use of "commander" is effectively just short for "unit commander" and is bandied about to address any officer since all officers are unit commanders by definition. I seriously doubt that convention is used in any real life armed forces but then I've never been in the military so I wouldn't know.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can think of a couple examples. The French Navy has three different grades of Captain: Corvette Captain, Frigate Captain and Ship-Of-The-Line Captain. The Russian Navy has something similar, with 1st, 2nd and 3rd Rank Captains (as well as a Captain Lieutenant).
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In US ground forces (unlike the Navy), there is no rank called “Commander”, but the term is used to designate the senior officer of a unit. A lieutenant in command would be a platoon commander, a Captain in command of a company would be a company commander, and so on and so forth.

The Navy sort of flips this, in that, while Captain is a specific rank, it is also a title accorded to the commanding officer of a ship, so a lieutenant or lieutenant commander in command of a frigate or Corvette is called “Captain”, even though they are several grades below a person who holds the rank of Captain.

It gets even more complicated when you have Marine or Army captains aboard a Naval Ship, even though they are several grades below that of a naval Captain, which may not have the rank of Captain anyway if the shop is small enough. Some navies will actually give all Army or Marine officers onboard a courtesy promotion to Major (and naval captains to Commodore) so as to insure there is only ever one Captain aboard a ship.

For myself, I had long considered removing the rank of Captain and replacing it with Commodore (or inserting “Sub-Commander” into the mix somehow, either above or below Lieutenant Commander), retaining the title of Captain purely as a designation for the ship’s senior officer.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I generally use this rank layout for my game(s)

Captain (title) being the officer in charge of a ship

Line or senior Captain (Rank) is the officer in charge of a ship line
Commander is a title indicating the commanding officer of unit/vessel
AND a ran in the navy directly subordinate to a line/senior Captain

Commodore is a title given to any officer of commander rank or higher through a warrant and indicates command of more than one line.
The Rank of commodore is the junior most grade of the admiralty and is usually given to senior captains in charge of smaller than squadron flotillas.

Admirals and up I tend to follow with rear admiral being the junior and equals a rough squadron command, then you have the admiral which generally commands a system, then you have the high admiral in charge of sectors and last is the grad admirals who are big boss.

Army and stormtrooper corps with their various rank-name follows a very similar layout, with brigadier used commodore for most parts.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The Navy sort of flips this, in that, while Captain is a specific rank, it is also a title accorded to the commanding officer of a ship, so a lieutenant or lieutenant commander in command of a frigate or Corvette is called “Captain”, even though they are several grades below a person who holds the rank of Captain.


I remember this being lampshaded in an episode of Star Trek Deep Space Nine ("Behind the Lines, Season 6, Ep. 4) where Captain Sisko was transferred to a starbase and Lt. Cmdr. Dax has to take command of the Defiant on a mission to destroy a Dominion sensor array. It leads to this quiet exchange between (then-Cadet) Nog and Chief O'Brien:

Quote:

Dax (addressing Nog and O'Brien, who are repairing the Defiant): Are you two ever going to be finished?
Nog: Just a few more minutes, Commander.
O'Brien (aside to Nog, correcting him): That's "Captain." It's an old naval tradition. Whoever's in command of a ship, regardless of rank, is referred to as "Captain."
Nog: You mean if I had to take command, I would be called "Captain," too?
O'Brien: Cadet, by the time you took command, there'd be no one left to call you anything.
Nog: Good point.

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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found this Imperial Scoursebook from the GURPS SW Game, I think it explains the Rank Colors and Placement very well.

http://members.upc.nl/l.deckers3/pdf/GURPS%203rd%20Star%20Wars%20-%20The%20Imperial%20Sourcebook%202nd.pdf

(page 135)

Any thoughts on this, and does it make sense?

Also we should consider that After Battle of yavin the over rank system was a little more streamlined, and changed slightly
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
I found this Imperial Scoursebook[sic] from the GURPS SW Game, I think it explains the Rank Colors and Placement very well.

http://members.upc.nl/l.deckers3/pdf/GURPS%203rd%20Star%20Wars%20-%20The%20Imperial%20Sourcebook%202nd.pdf

(page 135)

Any thoughts on this, and does it make sense?

Also we should consider that After Battle of yavin[sic] the over[sic] rank system was a little more streamlined, and changed slightly


Considering that one of the stormtrooper officer ranks is listed as "flight lieutenant" instead of "first lieutenant" (which is especially egregious since there's also a "flight lieutenant" rank for Imperial pilots) and the fact that a white stormtrooper pauldron is supposed to denote three different ranks (sergeant, staff sergeant and master sergeant) and does the same thing again for grey pauldrons (lance corporal and corporal), I'm not inclined to give this rank system much credence since it has such crappy editing and confusing rank symbols. And then there's the fact that the boxes for all of the naval enlisted ranks are all blank...

...Just how are you supposed to address an NCO when you can't even tell what his proper rank is?

Then again, this is a fanbook, so crappy editing is to be expected. I give it the same credence I'd give any other fanmade book of this quality (which is to say slim to none).

EDIT: I just noticed something else: among those blank naval enlisted boxes are ranks like "master sergeant technician" and "staff sergeant technician" and "sergeant technician". There are no sergeants in the navy.

(Here in Real Life(TM), while there are sergeants in the U.S. Marine Corps (which is technically under the purview of the Navy as naval infantry), the Marines don't use naval ranks, they use Army ranks instead. As AFAIK, there's no Star Wars equivalent of the Marines in the Empire's Order of Battle. Even the stormtroopers don't qualify as "marines" because they're under their own OrBat that is completely separate and distinct from both the Imperial Navy and Imperial Army. To put it another way, stormtroopers are not naval infantry so they are not "marines" in any sense of the word.)

Yeah, this fanbook only confuses matters; its rank system doesn't make much sense at all.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Mamatried wrote:
I found this Imperial Scoursebook[sic] from the GURPS SW Game, I think it explains the Rank Colors and Placement very well.

http://members.upc.nl/l.deckers3/pdf/GURPS%203rd%20Star%20Wars%20-%20The%20Imperial%20Sourcebook%202nd.pdf

(page 135)

Any thoughts on this, and does it make sense?

Also we should consider that After Battle of yavin[sic] the over[sic] rank system was a little more streamlined, and changed slightly


Considering that one of the stormtrooper officer ranks is listed as "flight lieutenant" instead of "first lieutenant" (which is especially egregious since there's also a "flight lieutenant" rank for Imperial pilots) and the fact that a white stormtrooper pauldron is supposed to denote three different ranks (sergeant, staff sergeant and master sergeant) and does the same thing again for grey pauldrons (lance corporal and corporal), I'm not inclined to give this rank system much credence since it has such crappy editing and confusing rank symbols. And then there's the fact that the boxes for all of the naval enlisted ranks are all blank...

...Just how are you supposed to address an NCO when you can't even tell what his proper rank is?

Then again, this is a fanbook, so crappy editing is to be expected. I give it the same credence I'd give any other fanmade book of this quality (which is to say slim to none).

EDIT: I just noticed something else: among those blank naval enlisted boxes are ranks like "master sergeant technician" and "staff sergeant technician" and "sergeant technician". There are no sergeants in the navy.

(Here in Real Life(TM), while there are sergeants in the U.S. Marine Corps (which is technically under the purview of the Navy as naval infantry), the Marines don't use naval ranks, they use Army ranks instead. As AFAIK, there's no Star Wars equivalent of the Marines in the Empire's Order of Battle. Even the stormtroopers don't qualify as "marines" because they're under their own OrBat that is completely separate and distinct from both the Imperial Navy and Imperial Army. To put it another way, stormtroopers are not naval infantry so they are not "marines" in any sense of the word.)

Yeah, this fanbook only confuses matters; its rank system doesn't make much sense at all.


The book and content is Blah......and the rank order, or hierarchy I know well enough.

The only thing I felt made somewhat sense what the indications that the colors has some different meanings. be it direct command(field), administrative duty, and the like and type political, smil political.
With both rows (if two rows) being of equal priority, and the colors priority from left to right, or even vice versa.

It makes perfect sense that the colors on the rnak plaques indicate both service branches and their area of authority...but which belong where
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