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Updating the Stat Template for Starships
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Argentsaber wrote:
Mamatried wrote:
I don't see how using command makes a guy who is almost untrained in gunnery become trained, just because some guy shouts orders....it makes Zero sense.

I can however see how good leadership, which command in essence is reducing difficulties, and by this enhancing performance, but I can not see how
4D become 6D because someone gave an order, if that is the case that is the only needed skill......

How many Sci Fi shows have the line "Fire on my command" though.. sometimes timing and coordination can make all the difference. Tall ships used three main strategies with their broadsides.. either a sort of fire as fast as you can get it reloaded sort of thing, a rolling fire where each cannon tried to target the same spot as they passed by, or one single massive volley at a time. Two of those three would require command rolls, and all of them adapt well to starwars.


I would rather have this being due to timing, reduce any penalties, or difficulties on either their attack or defense or action.

The commander gives the fire order just as the other ship is beginning his turn to port, or just as the other ship does something like change the focus of the shields he orders an attack from the flank.

The leader's timing and commands, help making the attacks easier, not increasing the skill level of the attackers.


While this is not about ships the principal still applies.


Lets take a squad of stormtroopers, they co-ordinate fire for efficiency and if making multiple attacks they get a MAP penalty.
A command roll here would imo bring down this MAP penalty to =0D

One example could be that a heroic command roll allows MAP penalty to be applied on attack number 3
Attack # 1 normal,
Attack #2 Normal *
Attack # 3 -1D MAP
* would normally get a -1D MAP Penalty but the command roll negates this, and the -1D MAP Penalty begins now on attack number 3.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
I don't see how using command makes a guy who is almost untrained in gunnery become trained, just because some guy shouts orders....it makes Zero sense.

I can however see how good leadership, which command in essence is reducing difficulties, and by this enhancing performance, but I can not see how
4D become 6D because someone gave an order, if that is the case that is the only needed skill......

The presumption is that the Crew Skill rating is an aggregate representing the skill level of the entire crew insofar as the entire crew's ability to perform certain tasks.

As far as throwing a PC with a high Mechanical Attribute into the gunner's seat of a turbolaser, it's a lot more than just yelling "Open Fire!" in the proper tone of voice. Command takes the form of instruction in fine-tuning the shot, such as being instructed to lead a target by a specific angle, or target a specific location on the target, or holding fire until a specific moment when the target's defenses may be temporarily weakened.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Mamatried wrote:
I don't see how using command makes a guy who is almost untrained in gunnery become trained, just because some guy shouts orders....it makes Zero sense.

I can however see how good leadership, which command in essence is reducing difficulties, and by this enhancing performance, but I can not see how
4D become 6D because someone gave an order, if that is the case that is the only needed skill......

The presumption is that the Crew Skill rating is an aggregate representing the skill level of the entire crew insofar as the entire crew's ability to perform certain tasks.

As far as throwing a PC with a high Mechanical Attribute into the gunner's seat of a turbolaser, it's a lot more than just yelling "Open Fire!" in the proper tone of voice. Command takes the form of instruction in fine-tuning the shot, such as being instructed to lead a target by a specific angle, or target a specific location on the target, or holding fire until a specific moment when the target's defenses may be temporarily weakened.



Instruction and fine tuning???? this takes time, a lot of time, hence I feel it is better for command to not add a single pip or D to anything whatsoever, but rather reduce difficulties and reduce MAP .

The Tie Fighter Pilot is at a default 4D in his capital ship. Some guy an officer without much to say in piloting whatsoever shouts in the pilot's ear, and now the pilot is a trained capital ship ace, looping around and dogfighting?

Or is he still the same default/untrained pilot that under some constant instuction manages to do what would be too difficult normally?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you read the Wraith Squadron books? Notice how in the battle scenes, Piggy acted as a flight controller for his fellow pilots, giving them precise instructions as to when to fire, maneuver, etc. Those simple commands based on proper timing increased their effectiveness in combat. Put a character with 4D Mech and no dice in Starfighter behind the controls of an X-Wing, with a good flight controller who has him on sensors giving him proper instructions as to precisely when to act, and he will be more effective.

Think of it as an officer with a view of the big picture being able to relay critical instructions to a subordinate who is focused on a specific task in order to increase the overall efficiency of that subordinate as it fits into a cohesive whole that is a unit or crew.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Did you read the Wraith Squadron books? Notice how in the battle scenes, Piggy acted as a flight controller for his fellow pilots, giving them precise instructions as to when to fire, maneuver, etc. Those simple commands based on proper timing increased their effectiveness in combat. Put a character with 4D Mech and no dice in Starfighter behind the controls of an X-Wing, with a good flight controller who has him on sensors giving him proper instructions as to precisely when to act, and he will be more effective.

Think of it as an officer with a view of the big picture being able to relay critical instructions to a subordinate who is focused on a specific task in order to increase the overall efficiency of that subordinate as it fits into a cohesive whole that is a unit or crew.


Is this really the pilot's SKILL in piloting that is boosted, or does the flight controller make things easier for the pilot aka lowering difficulties?

I can see how the pilot learns to pilot, but I do see how things normally very difficult or impossible is now doable due to the constant advice from the controller.....

After all if you are a passenger in a plane and you have to land it, ans the flight controller and another pilot talks you through it, it only reduces the difficulty of getting the plane down, it does make you a trained pilot.
The experience could maybe give you a +1 pip to the skill after, but that is learning.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you’re overthinking it.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I think you’re overthinking it.


Perhaps.

I generally use command to reduce penalties, or difficulties to the opponent, rather directly affecting the troops skill dice.


I also use this with tactics, using tactics to ( in some cases) add difficulties to the opponents.

Command vs Tactics
Tactics Vs Command

I often use them with some " Head made on the fly" modifiers, like if you are unfamiliar with the tactics then your difficulty to counter it is higher, and the effective bonus reduced.
etc etc.

I use tactics in a very similar way and the skills most often oppose eachother
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Argentsaber
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would argue that the game already increases die pool in many situations where the task is easier.. isn't that what die codes like maneuverability and fire control imply? It's much easier to maneuver a sports bike through a maze than a school bus (scale), but it's also much easier to maneuver a Ferarri than a sedan of roughly the same weight (maneuverability).

Additionally, the battery fire option for capital ships seems to imply that the cooperative bonus applied works much the same way, doesn't it?

In the tabletop RPG, lower difficulty is roughly equivalent to increased die pool, no?
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