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4D+2 vs 5D
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Argentsaber wrote:
Mamatried wrote:
Raven Redstar wrote:
Yes, I typically find that xD+2 rolls better than the next die code, but I also keep flat modifiers for situations instead of rolling up to the next D:

For instance, 4D+2 skill with a minor (+5) situational modifier turns into 4D+7 in my games instead of 6D+1.


WOW, I never thought of that, but yes it makes sense. getting a bonus does not actually increase your skill.
Thanks for that idea

For that matter, when creating a die pool from say fire control 2D+2 and gunnery 4D+2, you should be rolling 6D+4, not 7D+1. You only increase by pips when doing combined fire (like capital ship battery fire etc.) or similar situations.. in general you just add the dice up and then add the "plusses."


I've not seen anything official for when you are supposed to round up, vs when you're not..
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
I've not seen anything official for when you are supposed to round up, vs when you're not..


Page 5 of the Rules Companion: When you add or subtract pips, you always get pips back. For example, if a Rebel spends a Force point on a 5D+2 skill he doubles it (according to the Force Point rules) and rolls 10D+4.

When you are improving a skill or the die code of equipment you round pips up to dice. So a blaster skill of 3D increases to 3D+1, 3D+2, 4D. For these purposes. a single die is made up of three pips (as the average roll of a single die is a little more than 3, anything higher effectively gives you another die). Adding 2D+1 to a skill of 1D+2 would now make it 4D. (The
2D and 1D add together to give you 3D, while the +1 and +2 pips add up to give you another die, increasing the total to 4D.)

In play, though, multiple pip modifiers never round up to dice. A character can roll 4D+6, for example, depending on combined actions and other modifiers. When rolling actions during the game, never increase
the pips to dice.




Page 15 of the 1E core rulebook shows this happening in an example of doubling Roark Garnet's (the example character) skill codes.



I'm sure there's some similar notes in 2E someplace.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But what of say Grog the gammorean who's got a Str 3d+2, and uses a weapon that's Str+3d+2? Does he go to 6d+4 or 7d+1? If he popped a force point, would he then go to 9d+6???
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
But what of say Grog the gammorean who's got a Str 3d+2, and uses a weapon that's Str+3d+2? Does he go to 6d+4 or 7d+1? If he popped a force point, would he then go to 9d+6???


3D +2 added to 3D +2 in the game becomes 6D +4.

Never fiddle with converting to dice in a game. Add dice to dice and pips to pips.



3D +2 doubled, then add another 3D +2 would be 9D +6.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
But what of say Grog the gammorean who's got a Str 3d+2, and uses a weapon that's Str+3d+2? Does he go to 6d+4 or 7d+1?

Whill wrote:
Official Rules Clarification Q&As from Star Wars Adventure Journal "ISB Intercepts"
...
Issue No. 15 p.79-85 (1997), by Eric S. Trautmann, co-designer of R&E
Q: I play a Coynite bounty hunter with a Strength of 4D+2. When using a sat'skar (a Coynite sword) which does Strength+3D+1 damage, do I roll 8D or 7D+3?
A: In cases like this, the "pips" are not cumulative; a total of +3 does not equal 1D. Your Coynite bounty hunter would roll a total of 7D+3 to determine the damage his sat'skar inflicts.

Official Rules Clarifications, Errata & Conversions
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dph
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excuse my ham-fisted, lay-mans attempt to explain this (and this may already be factored into the numbers) BUT...

Keep in mind a mathematical theory I was reading about for calculating die averages in Wargaming where you roll multiple of the same dice.

The more die you roll, the greater the odds of ruling a number in the middle of that array.

For instance, one die can only roll a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6.
Two die have have the least and equal chance of rolling a 2 or 12 (which requires two 1s or 6s) but 7 for instance has many ways it can be rolled- (1&6, 3&4, 5&2 etc.).
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we're all familiar with that.

So the expected value of 4D+2 is, as was covered earlier in the thread, 4 * 3.5 + 2, which is 16. And the expected value of 5D is 5 * 3.5, which is 17.5. But the minimum that can be rolled is 6 and 5, respectively (I'm ignoring a 1 on a Wild Die here).

It's interesting that the Rules companion goes into some detail on this; I wasn't aware of that.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Zarn's point, rolling 4 on 4D (getting 6 with the +2 mod) or 5 on 5D isn't that much of a thing because the chance of rolling either is less than 1%.

So, while rolling 4 on 4D (getting 6 with the +2 mod) results in a higher number than rolling 5 on 5D, it really doesn't matter because the chance of rolling either is close enough for all practical purposes.

The player has an extremely low chance of rolling either--so low that there is really no difference in rolling 4 on 4D or 5 on 5D.

The point being: Even from the minimum roll angle, it's still better to roll 5D.
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