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Ragithian Human
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know about the power levels of npcs.
However it does not make sense as humans as minimum attribute is at 2D and a 4D max, without spending additional CPs to raise them further.
If we look to most if not all aliens we see that their attribute ranges while in the 1D range do fall within their given average, or minimum/maximum, just not some/most NPCs.

Given the humans as species, NOT player character is listed 2D/4D, I can not see any human npc with lower than 2D in any attribute unless the roll is reduced by things like armor.

Now if humans non character, as the species in the alien compendium was listed with 1D/4D then I would see the PCs as reasonably space opera level heroic, but with the RAW actually giving a "minimum" racial attribute at 2D, then all skills on all npcs are minimum 2D unmodified.

Are there by the raw alien species that have only advantages? Yes some have advantages that are super, like the morellian long life.....even longer than wookies..........now think how many D you can get in skills in such a time, compared to someone living 1/4 as long.

Look to the fan created generally accepted Corellians, their piloting +1D, is in most cases the same as a +1D to MEC, maybe outside Astrogation, only pilot skills are relevant in most games, and gunnery.

I then can not see how another human race, especially one engineered to cope with a certain environment have some advantages as well.
2D being a normal human strength, and listed as a species minimum.
then 3D is not too unreasonable for something engineered.

As an alternative it could be given the same 4D max, but a 2D+2 Minimum to indicate the genetic strength, then use the same rules for special factors, as with other species of high gravity or similar type environment.

having a negative just because there is a positive means no sense unless both have a purpose.

Lorrdians, have their communication, they have I think bt I am not sure 13D ( total 19 if PC).
A story factor considered "strong" and important is their hatred of slavery, yet they served in "fair" numbers with the empire............and the empire did enslave.

All of a sudden some fluff text, negates any real negative leaving only the positive .

On the power note, I use 10D for skills, this mostly due to me also enforcing the 2D minimum, also for NPCs, the difference is they don't get +6D to attributes
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
I am beginning to have issues "balance" in game rules.


And i see races like this, which have benefits, but nothing to offset them, as majorly unbalanced...
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Mamatried wrote:
I am beginning to have issues "balance" in game rules.


And i see races like this, which have benefits, but nothing to offset them, as majorly unbalanced...


But why?

In the case of this righitian human it is simply someone developed from what used to be genetically adapted human to live and maybe work on the planet.

If we look to corellians, they get a massive +1D to All pilot skills.
and what offset? nothing worth mentioning, they have this code they may or may not choose to follow somewhat.

We see other races out there with little or no off sets compared to their bonuses be them a base D12 race or a higher one.

I could however see the righitian human, given the fluff text of the race/species dwarfing baseline humans.
To me this indicate some type of higher STR.
This could be offset by a corresponding lower Dex, however nothing seems to indicate them being particularly slow.

Now come the more esoteric aspects, Perceptive abilities I can't really see being relevant to genetically change.

Now we are left with KNO, MEC and TEC, if we assume they were adapted to some form of mining/hard labor, then of the 3 the KNO is least important, followed by MEC.
To a miner, a somewhat "tech-level" worker, I see fixing stuff, demolition for mines etc being something to not offset by design of the species.

So for an offset for the sake of an offset, reduce Kno to 1D/3D, leaving the rest 2D/4D with STR going 3D/5D.

That being said I can not see how 12D

2D/4D DEX
2D/4D PER
2D/4D KNO
2D/4D MEC
2D/4D TEC
3D/5D STR

In any way be unbalanced, adding another 1D for a bae 13D or even yet another for 14D base is within the rules, it is actually fairly easy to roll an above 12D race, even one with zero offsets, some usually have some story factors if need be, but these are seldom if ever strong enough.

So if we roll, which we can a 14D base attribute dice race, and now go look at each of the attributes, possibly rolling each one for a max and a minimum.
Doing this we can have a race where placing the 14D is basically an average of 3D+2 all over, before allocating the 6D for player characters.

The ruels covers this, allows for this and can mechanically handle this, so why then can not a race have something,like 13D and no offsets,
or a 3D/5D to an attribute without a 1D/3D corresponding?

I don't see Usain Bolt, despite his obvious 4D Dex as being any stupid, now his KNO, TEC and MEC I don't think fall into genius levels, but they are not in any way low enough for an offset, at the same I assume him being a nroma person, if he chose to go to school for a degree in something, he would get this, so he is not at all at any disadvantages, but at a fairly huge advantage.

This what a world is, it is everything including the extremes, and they all fit.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Mamatried wrote:
I am beginning to have issues "balance" in game rules.


And i see races like this, which have benefits, but nothing to offset them, as majorly unbalanced...


But why?


Its because why if this race is available, would anyone take base humans? Or any of the other races with say a 11d base vice 12d?

Mamatried wrote:

We see other races out there with little or no off sets compared to their bonuses be them a base D12 race or a higher one.


And as i said, its one thing the designers imo did a piss poor job to address. Where you see some races with barely 11d for base attributes, little to no bonuses, but a # of story factors that might make them unplayable as heck (such as those 3 headed no hand having chicken creatures). BUT then you get some other races with 13d for attributes base, a # of abilities, and little to no story factor reigning in rule..

I mean, if a human's supposed to be the baseline at 12d and no bonuses/penalties, then it SHOULD imo stand to reason a race that gets more starting attributes should have only penalties, where one that only starts with 11 or less attributes should have bonuses to offset..

Its like with ADND. Why play a human, if elves have all those bonuses and no limitations (or few)? That's why race/class limitations and level limits existed, to balance out the stuff they got..
IMO the same should have been looked at for SW.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Mamatried wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Mamatried wrote:
I am beginning to have issues "balance" in game rules.


And i see races like this, which have benefits, but nothing to offset them, as majorly unbalanced...


But why?


Its because why if this race is available, would anyone take base humans? Or any of the other races with say a 11d base vice 12d?

Mamatried wrote:

We see other races out there with little or no off sets compared to their bonuses be them a base D12 race or a higher one.


And as i said, its one thing the designers imo did a piss poor job to address. Where you see some races with barely 11d for base attributes, little to no bonuses, but a # of story factors that might make them unplayable as heck (such as those 3 headed no hand having chicken creatures). BUT then you get some other races with 13d for attributes base, a # of abilities, and little to no story factor reigning in rule..

I mean, if a human's supposed to be the baseline at 12d and no bonuses/penalties, then it SHOULD imo stand to reason a race that gets more starting attributes should have only penalties, where one that only starts with 11 or less attributes should have bonuses to offset..

Its like with ADND. Why play a human, if elves have all those bonuses and no limitations (or few)? That's why race/class limitations and level limits existed, to balance out the stuff they got..
IMO the same should have been looked at for SW.


All of these are fair point, but unless there total revision of the aien books, then we have to accept what can be rolled.

And rolled there as a max I think is 4D/6D to all attributes on a 14 D Base.
It can allow for 4 Special ABilities, and natural weapons and natural armor.

we have plenty races with little or no offsets, lets look at the anzati, vampires, force sensitive from start WITH free powers ( by abilities)

The wookie has imo no negative offsets, an can have 5D or 6D max strength from the beginning.

Why doesn't every player only play wookies?

So the if the race existed no one would play another is no really valid.

Lets say for the sake of argument that a negative offset was a pr RAW absolute, and that the above listing of what could actually be rolled according to the raw is not there.

If we keep a 12D base, as it is for more than 95% of the aliens as well.
And to represent their genetic engineering that seems to be STR and actually SIZE related.
Why is a possible 5D max so much it will stop every other in existence?

how much is an attribute worth, how much is skill dice worth, is allAttribues actually worth the same...
What is an offset.

Lets again look at the corellians, they ZERO offsets to their huge piloting boost.......

But a righitian human will break the game if he can have a 5D str and no offsts?

It makes no sense.

that being said, there are tons of ways to indicate a high strength using abilities alone, keeping the attributes with int the 2D/4D range.


I am all for racial peculiarities, even those that unbalances things, for gods sake the gendai exist.....now counter this.....

13D base, with 2D/4D all over and STR 3D/5D

What offset would be fair for this?

If we look at a 13D I have sort of in my head we have the hapan.
13D but nothing more than I think 4D+2, which is not much.
To offset this they are given a HUGE list of things with only ONE thing being explained and making sense.
their vision. but put on a helmet to counter low light and your argument from above would be why would anyone want to pay anything else....add a helmet and you have 13D attributes.

This offset is there NOT because they have a 13D base , but due to conditions where they originate from.


I am also not counting a 1D+2/3D+2 as an offset, I call that galactic diversity.

So I have zero issues with 13D or 14D or 12D bases as it to me is almost all about diversity.

one of my coolest aliens ever made was the "farrani", a small Jawa like species, super at tech, quick minded, but small and thus not very strong, they were rolled at 13D base, they were also rolled each attribute at a min/max.

It came out like this
Base 13D

STR: 1D/3D
DEX: 2D+2/4D+2
TEC: 3D+2/5D+2
MEC: 1D/3D
PER: 2D/4D
KNO: 2D/4D


At first I rolled the ferrani to have trampling ability, but given they are about the size of a jawa I rerolled this as it made no sense, I was not gonna keep it just to have an offset for the sake of the offset.

I decided to ignore natural weapons and armor rolls for the species.

further rolling a 7 this gave the species 2 special abilites.

given that I wanted to them to be tech savvy jawa substitutes I gave them the following special abilities, selected not rolled

-Thechnica aptitude 2D for 1D to tech at creation
-Night vision see in darkness.

Now these are not the two abilites I actually rolled, but these re the ones I selected.

As for penalties I could choose delicate build but see no reason to why, the ferrani are scavengers, it is a dangerous job, being britle is not good...so I dropped it.

Now left with story factors to if for the sake offset for the sake of offsets.

none of the listed ones fitted the concept of the species so I was left with a 13D night vision tech savvy jawa like scavenger.........
I still have yet to find any balance issues with the race, nor have this been the only race played.


So why place offsets for the sake of offsets?

If the offset makes sense or fits with what the concept actually is....sure, but offsets for some issue of balance is not to me logical.

There exists humans that in game terms would have 4D all over, have better hearing, memory and such and such......they are maybe in the less than dozen on a world but they exist.

If the RAW was to be nazi about 12D, why do hapans or anzati exist, one having a crippeing game breaking making the race 100% useless offset for a little +1D to attributes with a min max not different form humans in a stand out way.

Anzati havin zero negative offsets what so ever, almost immprtality, force powers etce tc.........and at a 14D base.

And then an engineered race with either a possible 3D/5D on a 12D base or a 13D MUST have offsets or the race will be the only one played?

I have yet to have met anyone who have played anzati,or hapans......both above 12D base????
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
All of these are fair point, but unless there total revision of the aien books, then we have to accept what can be rolled.
And rolled there as a max I think is 4D/6D to all attributes on a 14 D Base.
It can allow for 4 Special ABilities, and natural weapons and natural armor.


This is twice now you've mentioned "Rolling for what your species can have. I take it you are using the IMO unplaytested 'chart' to build your own new species from Alien encounters!

Mamatried wrote:
we have plenty races with little or no offsets, lets look at the anzati, vampires, force sensitive from start WITH free powers ( by abilities)


And with the one exception to them in novels, i have YET TO ever see anyone use them in a module, as a pc, npc for their home games OR them crop up any other time.

Mamatried wrote:
The wookie has imo no negative offsets, an can have 5D or 6D max strength from the beginning.

Why doesn't every player only play wookies?


You don't consider them being a slave race and having the whole can go berserker' as downsides/negative offsets??

I do. Have had quite a few games where wookie players had to bend over backwards to prove to imperial customs officials (or bribe like crazy) that they were 'free wookies', or "owned by someone else in the party"...

Mamatried wrote:
Lets again look at the corellians, they ZERO offsets to their huge piloting boost.......


Maybe that's why few DM's i have played under, USE those 'human centric from what star system you are from bonuses'..

Mamatried wrote:
I am all for racial peculiarities, even those that unbalances things, for gods sake the gendai exist.....now counter this.....


And what source, are those Gen'dai from? I own Both GG4 and GG11, as well as Alien encounters, and not ONE has this species. BUT they are part of the 'complete aliens' fan made guide, produced by Thiago S Aranha, with absolutely NO mention of what their source was.. So to ME that species doesn't exist..

Mamatried wrote:
If we look at a 13D I have sort of in my head we have the hapan.
13D but nothing more than I think 4D+2, which is not much.
To offset this they are given a HUGE list of things with only ONE thing being explained and making sense.
their vision. but put on a helmet to counter low light and your argument from above would be why would anyone want to pay anything else....add a helmet and you have 13D attributes.


Wouldn't that helmet hinder their vision in other ways, if its bulky enough to block out the sunlight? And how much are they paying to get said helmet.

Mamatried wrote:
one of my coolest aliens ever made was the "farrani", a small Jawa like species, super at tech, quick minded, but small and thus not very strong, they were rolled at 13D base, they were also rolled each attribute at a min/max.


Ahhh.. Maybe this is why i am having issues. You like generating randomly, via that chart, aliens... I have never seen a single other DM who's done that.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The alien generation thingie came about with me trying hard to do two things, one I had to give up and one I am still working on.

I wanted first to make a human primitive culture, something like romans/vikings/celts type thing, in appearence and tech level so I had a loo through the book.

I also wanted to stat out the righitian human, given the fluff teks I was only sure they were large and strong, so some form of at least semi brutes maybe, so I checked what could be, and noticed the geneation charts.

I tried to stat out 13D and found it to be exactly like humand but with a 3D/5D to str.

In order to better understand the book and the suppliment I ended up making/rolling the ferrani, mostly as a test.

The race works mechanically, as a concept though I am not too sure, they have been played and "abandoned" and encountered here and there throughout the galaxy mostly as background scavengers.

Gendai, is not as far as I know stated out as far as I know, but the species exist, being instant regenerators and immortals etc etc......clone wars

Then again any boon if you will is often negated when it can't be used in play.

I would have no issue with a character starting with 12D computer, and as for balance, well if he is in a cave on hoth trying to keep warm I am not so sure that is a boon.

Attributes are different matter.


As a thought, a righitian human at base 12D, with a 1D+2/3D to Kno and Maybe Mechanical, then 2D/4D in the rest.
An alternative is to make then big for environment rather than work, keepng the 12D base with a 3D/5D str, 1D/3D to tech and mech with a skill bonus on creation to agricultural skills......

again nothing here is an offset and here is much to gain, all in all more pro than con on this.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well you did ask for our thoughts, i gave mine.. Take them or leave them as you wish..

And as for the Gen'dai, i looked them up, and most of what i see comes either from some of the pc games (like the old republic ones) or from the cartoons.. I do NOT put stock in anything that comes from them as being 'good', to base stuff off of, as cartoon writers have to make things that 'appeal' to kid viewers, so don't care for whether it makes sense or not..
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it is worth, he is my take on this species.

Quote:
Ragithian Human
Near-Humans who inhabit the high-gravity world of Ragith III. Due to genetic engineering, they are tall, strong beings who dwarf most baseline Humans.

RAGITHIAN HUMAN
Home Planet: Ragath III
Attribute Dice: 12D
DEXTERITY 1D/3D+2
KNOWLEDGE 1D/4D
MECHANICAL 1D/3D
PERCEPTION 2D/4D
STRENGTH 3D/5D
TECHNICAL 1D/3D+1

Special Abilities:

--- Heavy Gravity: Whenever Ragithians are on a planet with lighter gravity than their homeworld, they receive a +1D to Strength related skills (but not against damage).

Story Factors:
--- Large: Some time in their past, Ragithians were genetically engineered to be large, thick-boned and musclar in order to survive the extreme gravity of their homeworld. As tall as wookiees and nearly as wide as herglics, Ragithians are much bigger than most species throughout the galaxy. This can cause issues such as buying clothes off the rack, have trouble finding chairs that accommodate their bulk, tools for their large hands, and difficulty using weaponry that requires a substantially smaller finger such as blasters and blaster rifles. Some Ragithians wear armor, though it is expensive and must be custom made, most typically do not, as it is a social more in Ragithian society.
--- Reputation: Ragithians are widely regarded as primitive and less intelligent.

Move: 10/12
Size: 2-2.3 meters

Source: wookieepedia, stats by +Oliver Queen.

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Last edited by shootingwomprats on Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Gen'Dai have actually been fan-created for some time now. Though looking through the link on wookieepedia, I would not allow them as a playable PC species. To be honest, this is one of those species that is good for lore and contacts/enemies, but just should not be used by PCs.

Quote:
GEN'DAI
Attribute Dice: 12D
DEXTERITY 2D/4D
KNOWLEDGE 2D/3D+2
MECHANICAL 2D/4D
PERCEPTION 1D+2/3D+2
STRENGTH 3D/4D+2
TECHNICAL 2D/4D

Special Abilities:

--- Amazing Physiology: The Gen'Dai have an amazing physiology that allows them to withstand massive amounts of damage. Double every number on the damage chart. By example: stunned is 0-6, wounded 7-16, etc.
--- Healing Hibernation: They also have the ability to undergo a healing hibernation in which they recover one injury level every 1D rounds and fight disease. A Gen'Dai can reattach a severed limb in 4D rounds. The severed limb must be within 2 meters of the Gen'Dai. If the original limb is destroyed, it can be regenerated in 4D days.

Move: 10/12
Size: 1.9-3.5 meters tall

Source: Aliens Stats (page 57)

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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
For what it is worth, he is my take on this species.

Quote:
Ragithian Human
Near-Humans who inhabit the high-gravity world of Ragith III. Due to genetic engineering, they are tall, strong beings who dwarf most baseline Humans.

RAGITHIAN HUMAN
Home Planet: Ragath III
Attribute Dice: 12D
DEXTERITY 1D/3D+2
KNOWLEDGE 1D/4D
MECHANICAL 1D/3D
PERCEPTION 2D/4D
STRENGTH 3D/5D
TECHNICAL 1D/3D+1

Special Abilities:

--- Heavy Gravity: Whenever Ragithians are on a planet with lighter gravity than their homeworld, they receive a +1D to Strength related skills (but not against damage).

Story Factors:
--- Large: Some time in their past, Ragithians were genetically engineered to be large, thick-boned and musclar in order to survive the extreme gravity of their homeworld. As tall as wookiees and nearly as wide as herglics, Ragithians are much bigger than most species throughout the galaxy. This can cause issues such as buying clothes off the rack, have trouble finding chairs that accommodate their bulk, tools for their large hands, and difficulty using weaponry that requires a substantially smaller finger such as blasters and blaster rifles. Some Ragithians wear armor, though it is expensive and must be custom made, most typically do not, as it is a social more in Ragithian society.
--- Reputation: Ragithians are widely regarded as primitive and less intelligent.

Move: 10/12
Size: 2-2.3 meters

Source: wookieepedia, stats by +Oliver Queen.




I like this one.......
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
I like this one.......


Glad you like it, hope you can use it.
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