MC80 vs. ISD - how do you do enough damage

[denderan marajain]

[denderan marajain]

[CRMcNeill]

I think the RAW is hugely flawed with regards to the Command skill and any combat coordination above the squad level, but since we are discussing this in the Official Rules section, any discussion here must center on what is in the Official Rules. Any discussion of alternatives should be moved over to an appropriate topic in the House Rules section.

Taking into account both the Coordination rules and the quote I posted from above, there is no clear way for a ship's captain to apply his Command skill roll to his gunnery officer's skill roll. However, the gunnery officer is also in personal control of all the weapons in every fire arc (with an undetermined number of assistants and gun crew serving under him), so it's an easy step to say that the gunnery officer can simply order all of his cannon to fire at a single target, receiving the resulting coordination bonus from the massed fire.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[denderan marajain]

[CRMcNeill]

Well, it's not probable, but it is still possible. The MC80's rolls would have to be much better than average to have a chance. Of course, depending on which version of the Rules of Engagement Skill-to-Damage rule you use, the Mon Cal's skill level could make a big difference, and the MC80's shields are much better suited to letting the ship take a beating while still gambling on a high Damage roll.

Also noteworthy is that, while the 2E and 2R&E versions of the rules give MC80's an equal number of cannon in all four fire arcs, the 1E Rebel Alliance Sourcebook strongly indicates that the cannon on the MC80 are concentrated more on the left and right fire arcs, as opposed to being equally distributed (see page 152 for the Capital Ship Fire Arcs illustration). While the 2E ISD matches this image (cannon cover the front, left and right arcs, with nothing aft), the MC80 does not.

Going off that image, an MC80 would more likely have a distribution of 8 Front, 20 Left, 20 Right, 0 Rear (or 12 Front, 18 Left, 18 Right, 0 Rear). This is borderline house rule, but since it is based off of a previous version of the official rules, it's arguably passable.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[garhkal]

[denderan marajain]

[S-Foil]

In a stand-up fight the only real way for an MC80 to hold its own against an ISD is to use its better maneuverability and crew skill to get into and stay in the ISD's rear firing arc. If the MC80 also keeps between 25 and 35 units from the ISD it's Turbolasers are at Medium range while the ISD's Ion Canons (the ISD's only rear arc guns) are at Long range.

The range penalties and crew skill differences would give the MC80 and advantage in the particular scenario. This assumes neither side is able to make significant headway with their fighter compliment. If the MC80's fighters through skill differences and shields can get a K/D ratio of 2:1 or better the. They can hary the ISD and even potentially make effective attack runs.

In the "real world" I would think (and have played such) that the Rebels would always avoid a stand up fight against an ISD. If they are going to go after one they would use pack tactics and send multiple MC80s against one ISD (trying to keep in its rear firing arc or just doubling up in one of the other arcs). A pair of MC80s each with a squadron of B-Wings could do a pretty good job against an ISD as long as long as they don't get cocky.

Additionally the MC80s would always travel with a picket screen of smaller capital ships to make sure the ISD's fighters can't land hits on the MC80s.

Save for Thrawn's fleet in the Thrawn sourcebooks or the fleet actions in the Rebels cartoons I can't think of many places we have seen ISDs travel with escorts. It's sort of an Imperial hubris thing that ISDs are so bad-@$$ that they don't need escorts.

[Zarn]

Also, there's the "defeat in detail" bit. The Empire is defending, the Rebels (and later, the Alliance) is attacking.

Which means that the Empire is nickel-and-diming their forces, trying to cover all bases as well as they can, while the Rebels can concentrate their forces to hit specific targets. Yes, the Rebels have lighter weight units (except, arguably, for their usual starfighters), and their logistical depth is nowhere near the Empire's. But, they can pick and choose where they hit, theoretically (in practice, you tend to get certain unavoidable fights because of the resources you're protecting, or the political coin you need to pay, or whatever).

Good analysis on the fire arcs, though; I've read both stat descriptions, but I hadn't really grokked what they meant until you laid it out as succinctly as you did, S-Foil.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defeat_in_detail

[garhkal]

If we added in fighters, the ISD with 6 squadrons even with no shields, is comparible to the 3 shielded squadrons an MC has.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Leona Makk]

[CRMcNeill]

The individual combat system doesn't really apply that well to capital ship combat, especially on the fleet level. The 2R&E Rulebook makes the point that such combat should be peripheral to the actions of the characters. Personally, I'd like to see (and have worked on) some rules for characters to command capital ships in combat. In the event a workable rule system exists, I would suggest using Tactics for initiative.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[garhkal]