The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

Blind Hyperspace Jumps
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> House Rules -> Blind Hyperspace Jumps Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Zarn
Captain
Captain


Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 662
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paradoxically, wouldn't slower hyperdrives be more useful for this? Your margins of error are much, much better if you use a x10 drive instead of x1 drive - if you have a margin of 2 seconds at x1, you have a margin of 20 seconds at x10, and that allows your precision to be that much better.

So in that sense, if you have access to heaps of low-powered hyperdrives, you might actually have outsystem carriers that drop off starfighters which then jump en-masse insystem...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mamatried
Captain
Captain


Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 535
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
Paradoxically, wouldn't slower hyperdrives be more useful for this? Your margins of error are much, much better if you use a x10 drive instead of x1 drive - if you have a margin of 2 seconds at x1, you have a margin of 20 seconds at x10, and that allows your precision to be that much better.

So in that sense, if you have access to heaps of low-powered hyperdrives, you might actually have outsystem carriers that drop off starfighters which then jump en-masse insystem...



Well most backups are in the 8 range is super good and the 10-12 range normally so maybe that is part of the reason why.


However this time can be how long the computer brain takes to work, the faster the better, so it may not be about the actual strength of it
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zarn
Captain
Captain


Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 662
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No.

The nav computer might possibly give a bonus to the Astrogation roll. And sure, the Astrogation roll can have its Difficulty increased in order to plot a more efficient route.

This, however, does not change the speed of the hyperdrive.

From the Canon section on hyperdrives from Wookieepedia:

"Hyperdrives were rated by "class"; the lower the class, the faster the engine. With its Class One hyperdrive, the Carrion Spike was the fastest ship in the Imperial Navy, while top-of-the-line battlecruisers such as the Imperial I-class Star Destroyer featured Class 2 hyperdrives. The T-14 hyperdrive generator equipped on J-type 327 Nubian starships was rated Class 1.8. Some exceptional ships, like Nakari Kelen's Desert Jewel or Han Solo's Millennium Falcon, had exceptionally fast hyperdrives—Class 0.8 and 0.5 respectively."

The phrase, "the lower the class, the faster the engine" is quite unequivocal and does not support the idea that a greater computational capacity is what drives a faster hyperdrive as compared to a slower one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mamatried
Captain
Captain


Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 535
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
No.

The nav computer might possibly give a bonus to the Astrogation roll. And sure, the Astrogation roll can have its Difficulty increased in order to plot a more efficient route.

This, however, does not change the speed of the hyperdrive.

From the Canon section on hyperdrives from Wookieepedia:

"Hyperdrives were rated by "class"; the lower the class, the faster the engine. With its Class One hyperdrive, the Carrion Spike was the fastest ship in the Imperial Navy, while top-of-the-line battlecruisers such as the Imperial I-class Star Destroyer featured Class 2 hyperdrives. The T-14 hyperdrive generator equipped on J-type 327 Nubian starships was rated Class 1.8. Some exceptional ships, like Nakari Kelen's Desert Jewel or Han Solo's Millennium Falcon, had exceptionally fast hyperdrives—Class 0.8 and 0.5 respectively."

The phrase, "the lower the class, the faster the engine" is quite unequivocal and does not support the idea that a greater computational capacity is what drives a faster hyperdrive as compared to a slower one.



what I meant is that a better hyperdrive, a faster one, has a faster transfer of navigation coordinates.

If you have a top nav computer and a low class hyperdive you will always run slow, even helped by your astrogation check.
The hyperdrive negines them selves have less poweroutput, and most likely as with electronics and computer system, making it slower regardless.

A faster drive maeks the need for the check less,

in this interdictor case, it is to pull out, this neeeds power, once you have pulled free you now need to astrogate a jump
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11477
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
what I meant is that a better hyperdrive, a faster one, has a faster transfer of navigation coordinates.

If you have a top nav computer and a low class hyperdive you will always run slow, even helped by your astrogation check.
The hyperdrive negines them selves have less poweroutput, and most likely as with electronics and computer system, making it slower regardless.

This is speculation, and not backed up by any of the RAW for hyperspace travel. Multipliers are only part of the hyperdrive, not the navcomputer. I'm okay with an advanced navcomputer that has an Astrogation Difficulty modifier (let's say -10) combined with a modifier that increases Difficulty in trade for reducing route calculation time, but hyperdrive multipliers are not and never have been part of the data transfer between the navcomputer and the drive.

Quote:
A faster drive maeks the need for the check less,

What does this mean?

Quote:
in this interdictor case, it is to pull out, this neeeds power, once you have pulled free you now need to astrogate a jump

An Interdictor's ability to pull a ship out of hyperspace has nothing to do with overpowering the drive. It is entirely about tricking the ship's drive into dropping into realspace, and keeping it there. Evading an Interdictor's gravity well projectors is entirely about either getting outside the range of its gravity wells, or rolling high enough on Astrogation to plot a course away from inside the well (which is insanely difficult; check Wanted by Cracken for the numbers, the Diff numbers are in the +30 and +40 range).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11477
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
Paradoxically, wouldn't slower hyperdrives be more useful for this? Your margins of error are much, much better if you use a x10 drive instead of x1 drive - if you have a margin of 2 seconds at x1, you have a margin of 20 seconds at x10, and that allows your precision to be that much better.

So in that sense, if you have access to heaps of low-powered hyperdrives, you might actually have outsystem carriers that drop off starfighters which then jump en-masse insystem...

I mentioned something to that effect here. A ship traveling at a slower velocity for the same amount of time as a faster ship is going to cover much less distance, and thus be much less likely to collide with something. The flipside is that it would likely also be easier to track. What form this would take from a rules standpoint, I'm not sure.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 11894
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
Paradoxically, wouldn't slower hyperdrives be more useful for this? Your margins of error are much, much better if you use a x10 drive instead of x1 drive - if you have a margin of 2 seconds at x1, you have a margin of 20 seconds at x10, and that allows your precision to be that much better.

So in that sense, if you have access to heaps of low-powered hyperdrives, you might actually have outsystem carriers that drop off starfighters which then jump en-masse insystem...


Maybe blind jumps could get limited to being usable by back ups??
_________________
It's Not who you kill, but how they die!
You cannot dodge it if you do not know it is coming, and you cannot hit it if you do not know its there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11477
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
So in that sense, if you have access to heaps of low-powered hyperdrives, you might actually have outsystem carriers that drop off starfighters which then jump en-masse insystem...

That's a very intriguing idea. Having starfighters equipped with hyperdrives in the x10 range or greater would make them heavily dependent on transport by carriers, yet still have the stand-off strike capability that carrier aircraft made so useful. Obviously, the rules for the classic era are pretty well set, but something like this could be used pre-Clone Wars.

Plus, if the carrier is deployed somewhere within a few lightyears, it would still be able to exercise some real-time control over the strike group (possibly with a Comm-Scan Control & Relay Platform, ala the SWU equivalent of an E-2 Hawkeye).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Mamatried
Captain
Captain


Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 535
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
No.

The nav computer might possibly give a bonus to the Astrogation roll. And sure, the Astrogation roll can have its Difficulty increased in order to plot a more efficient route.

This, however, does not change the speed of the hyperdrive.

From the Canon section on hyperdrives from Wookieepedia:

"Hyperdrives were rated by "class"; the lower the class, the faster the engine. With its Class One hyperdrive, the Carrion Spike was the fastest ship in the Imperial Navy, while top-of-the-line battlecruisers such as the Imperial I-class Star Destroyer featured Class 2 hyperdrives. The T-14 hyperdrive generator equipped on J-type 327 Nubian starships was rated Class 1.8. Some exceptional ships, like Nakari Kelen's Desert Jewel or Han Solo's Millennium Falcon, had exceptionally fast hyperdrives—Class 0.8 and 0.5 respectively."

The phrase, "the lower the class, the faster the engine" is quite unequivocal and does not support the idea that a greater computational capacity is what drives a faster hyperdrive as compared to a slower one.



No not spped of the hyperdrive, but the speed of "data traffic" between the nav computer and the hyperdrive.
Where a higher power hyperdive have faster and more effective data transfer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mamatried
Captain
Captain


Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 535
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Zarn wrote:
So in that sense, if you have access to heaps of low-powered hyperdrives, you might actually have outsystem carriers that drop off starfighters which then jump en-masse insystem...

That's a very intriguing idea. Having starfighters equipped with hyperdrives in the x10 range or greater would make them heavily dependent on transport by carriers, yet still have the stand-off strike capability that carrier aircraft made so useful. Obviously, the rules for the classic era are pretty well set, but something like this could be used pre-Clone Wars.

Plus, if the carrier is deployed somewhere within a few lightyears, it would still be able to exercise some real-time control over the strike group (possibly with a Comm-Scan Control & Relay Platform, ala the SWU equivalent of an E-2 Hawkeye).


Nice idea.
Well the fighters could be carried by a carrier for efficiency, but they if rebel hve their own hyperdrives to for the return.


this then becomes the carrier dropping fighters while still in hyperspace ( like the shuttle with finn and rose), then once the fighters have done the job, they jump home or to a pickup point
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Argentsaber
Lieutenant
Lieutenant


Joined: 07 Oct 2017
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I never SAID it changed the navigation! What I said is that, because of the way WEG structured the rules for Astrogation and Interdictors, jumping into hyperspace too close to a gravity well could cause the ship to go off course. The navcomputer would not be affected in any way, and would still be following the course originally programmed into it. However, because it is essentially flying blind, with only inertial guidance to keep it on course, it has no way of recognizing that a tiny variation made in its initial heading - caused by being too close to a strong gravity well in hyperspace - caused the ship to go off course.

The only way around this, per the RAW, is for a sufficiently skilled Astrogator to roll high enough to beat the increased Astrogation Difficulty caused by being too close to a gravity well.

However, also per the RAW, the ship only goes off course if it fails its Astrogation roll by 10 or less. If it fails by more than 10, it doesn’t jump at all. What I’m talking about is the 10 point window that is the grey area between a successful jump and a failed jump that doesn’t go anywhere. Within that grey area, a ship can still jump to hyperspace, but will almost certainly get thrown off course or collide with something. Something has to cause that, and gravity causing jumps to go slightly off course during the first nanoseconds of the jump is the most logical candidate.

And it’s not sufficient to quote Wookieepedia’s article on Interdictors without quoting why gravity wells do what they do. Gravity wells have always been a brute force approach to tricking a ship’s automated safety systems into dropping out of hyperspace, no matter how Rebels chose to represent it.


Given the basic rule for a jump to fail, maybe a good mechanic would be to assign the gravity well a die code to add to astrogation difficulty? I'm not sure if this should be based on the operator's die code or similar to a weapon damage.. but raising the difficulty substantially might easily explain both most ships being prevented from jumping as well as how very good astrogators are capable of escaping, albiet with a much higher likelihood of mishap.. This could also allow the "hyperdrive cutout bypass" to basically function as juryrigged die code to increase astrogation while within a gravity well.
_________________
"The universe is driven by the complex interaction between three ingredients: matter, energy, and enlightened self-interest."
G'Kar, Survivors (Babylon 5)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11477
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is sort of already covered in Wanted by Cracken, where Astrogation Difficulty is increased by proximity to the gravity well. Per the WEG rules, jumps were impossible once you reached a certain point, but TFA kinda threw that out the window. In an attempt to compensate, I changed the "cannot jump" result to +50 Difficulty, so that Han jumping the Falcon into the atmosphere of Starkiller Base was possible, but also extremely difficult.

And yes, the existing rules are for making the jump to hyperspace, but it would also make sense that the nav computer would potentially reject a course routing that would end too far inside a planet's gravity well.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> House Rules All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Page 7 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0