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Tactical Combat
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand. Are you saying you would stick with RAW?
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he's saying that he would stick with RAW, but allow the brawling skill to be used.

I like the idea of +10 damage of a knife using in hand to hand. It makes it more potent than an average martial arts kick using RoE Martial Arts rules. The only problem, is eventually your hand to hand attacks become much more deadly than even your long guns. I'm considering adopting the half Strength/Lifting for melee damage, and maybe do half Strength/Stamina for damage resistance rolls. Or, I might even just do half Strength for damage resist to really up-play the role of armor in the setting. I'm not entirely sure. Half Strength to resist would seriously up the lethality of combat.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd keep the +10/+5 bonuses when fighting melee vs someone unarmed, but allow someone to use their brawl vice melee skill. And though i can understand the bonus damage, +10 imo is a bit much.. That's almost like saying using a knife adds 3d to damage..
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And though i can understand the bonus damage, +10 imo is a bit much.. That's almost like saying using a knife adds 3d to damage..


But, using RoE optional rules, a kick does Str+2D damage. A knife is more deadly than a foot, right?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
Quote:
And though i can understand the bonus damage, +10 imo is a bit much.. That's almost like saying using a knife adds 3d to damage..


But, using RoE optional rules, a kick does Str+2D damage. A knife is more deadly than a foot, right?

IIRC, that rule was strictly for martial artists, who had been trained how to deliver a devastating kick.

Personally though, I’ve always thought it more appropriate that unarmed attacks should inflict Stun Damage, except on a Wild Die.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Personally though, I’ve always thought it more appropriate that unarmed attacks should inflict Stun Damage, except on a Wild Die.

That's one way to do it. I've done a lot of playtesting on this, and I've found that brawling attacks with my tweaked damaged chart, full stun damage and "1/2 Lifting" normal damage are fairly congruent so I let players choose. The worst outcome with full stun damage is unconscious+wound while the "1/2 Lifting" normal damage still has the more severe damage results, but they are in extreme cases (like wild die explosions). This system leaves full normal damage from unarmed attacks to be the purview of martial arts.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
Quote:
And though i can understand the bonus damage, +10 imo is a bit much.. That's almost like saying using a knife adds 3d to damage..


But, using RoE optional rules, a kick does Str+2D damage. A knife is more deadly than a foot, right?


That depends on who's delivering the kick.. BUT since a knife (vibro dagger) already is doing Str+1d (or +1 pip for regular knives)< giving them an additional 3d over, puts them more akin to a vibro axe damage level..
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, what if you just make unarmed combat (i.e. no weapons at all) be a Stun weapon. Minimally armed (brass knuckles, standard knife) might upgrade this to lethal damage.

In a situation like this, Wookie Climbing Claws might simply serve to give wookies an option for lethal damage... and you can even then have a ruling on using the claws, that they are inappropriate to use on someone not armed (including other Wookies who are not bearing actual weapons).
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Raven Redstar wrote:
Quote:
And though i can understand the bonus damage, +10 imo is a bit much.. That's almost like saying using a knife adds 3d to damage..


But, using RoE optional rules, a kick does Str+2D damage. A knife is more deadly than a foot, right?


That depends on who's delivering the kick.. BUT since a knife (vibro dagger) already is doing Str+1d (or +1 pip for regular knives)< giving them an additional 3d over, puts them more akin to a vibro axe damage level..



Yes, that is the point: at brawling distances (grappling distances), you can make precise attacks against specific vital parts: jugular, kidneys, lungs, etc. But the trade off is that you are FAR more likely to miss (because you lose the +10 bonus). Essentially, you are taking a -10 penalty to "call a shot."
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You know, what if you just make unarmed combat (i.e. no weapons at all) be a Stun weapon. Minimally armed (brass knuckles, standard knife) might upgrade this to lethal damage.


This might be a way to go. If I were going to, I'd allow an unarmed strike to be lethal if the character rolls double death damage over soak to actually kill a character with their bare hands.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
[
Yes, that is the point: at brawling distances (grappling distances), you can make precise attacks against specific vital parts: jugular, kidneys, lungs, etc. But the trade off is that you are FAR more likely to miss (because you lose the +10 bonus). Essentially, you are taking a -10 penalty to "call a shot."


So what of other melee weapons that can be used close in? Would they also get a bump up in damage?
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose it depends on the weapon. But, a GM should feel free to make that call.

Vibro knuckles or a black jack, for example, don't offer the same versatility as a knife, nor to they have the ability to directly damage/destroy vital organs. A knife can get between ribs, cut major arteries, etc, and it is no more cumbersome than a brawling attack.

The other side of this coin is that the knife fighter is much easier to hit using larger weapons (because those weapons impart a +10 bonus on their attack roll against a defender with a knife), so it puts the knife fighter at much larger risk, if he uses it this way than as a "true" melee weapon.

Truth be told, I think I would rather just outright assign all "small" weapons to the brawling skill without leaving the option for using them as melee weapons, but I'm not yet 100% certain that that is the "right" answer.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
You know, what if you just make unarmed combat (i.e. no weapons at all) be a Stun weapon. Minimally armed (brass knuckles, standard knife) might upgrade this to lethal damage.

In a situation like this, Wookie Climbing Claws might simply serve to give wookies an option for lethal damage... and you can even then have a ruling on using the claws, that they are inappropriate to use on someone not armed (including other Wookies who are not bearing actual weapons).


Could be. But, there is a theme for this thread that implies we are talking about characters with a military skill set. Not every soldier is a world class martial artist, but every soldier is trained to kill with bare hands (even if at only the most basic level).

That being said, I would want to retain the potential for lethal damage via unarmed attacks. It occurs to me that melee weapons in general would need an overhaul in order to fit into this system. I may get around to this, but my next project will be lightsabers (a detailed system of building/designing lightsabers and using them in combat). From there, I may develop some usable concepts for melee combat.
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