| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16204
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
 Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:50 pm Post subject: Danger Sense (Improved) |
 |
|
According to WEG rules, Danger Sense is only supposed to activate the round before an attack actually occurs. But in the official material, Danger Sense seems to make a much broader scope, and pick up on threats much more nebulous than a direct assault. So, here is my treatment of that.
Danger Sense
Author's Note: This is an expansion of the Danger Sense RAW to reflect the official ability of Force users to detect threats more than one round in advance.
Sense Difficulty: Varies:
Reaction Sense - Easy (Allows a Jedi to sense impending danger automatically. Any potential threat registers, so long as the Jedi succeeds on his Sense roll. In game terms, this is treated like a reaction roll, and success means that the Jedi becomes aware of impending danger without conscious choice. On a successful roll, the Jedi simply becomes aware of a danger in his immediate future. The warning doesn’t come from any specific direction, but does increase or decrease as the Jedi moves closer to or away from the danger source).
Identify Danger - Moderate (Once the Jedi is aware of the danger, he may begin to seek out its source. A success on this roll identifies the source of the danger, such as a person waiting in ambush, or a series of trip-wire activated automatic weapons).
Counteract Danger - Difficult (Once the danger is identified, the character may begin to analyze the dangerous situation, feeling their way around the edges of it by examining the danger level involved in various potential actions involving the threat. A success on this roll allows character to identify possible courses of action to avoid or defuse the danger).
Notes:
When facing a Force-using opponent, Difficulty is as normal plus the opponent’s Control Dice roll.
Difficulty is modified by temporal and physical proximity, as well as threat level (See chart below).
Danger Sense can be used to sense danger to others, modified by relationship.
Modifiers:
Physical:
+0 - Direct threats to the Jedi
+5 - General threat to the Jedi (Jedi on ship’s bridge: "The bridge is going to be attacked!")
+10 – Non-specific threat (Jedi on ship’s bridge "The ship’s engines are about to be attacked!")
+15 and up – Political, or very vague, non-direct attacks. ("It’s not about the mission, Master. It’s something…elsewhere…elusive")
Temporal:
+0 – Will occur in the next round or action
+5 – Will occur within the next minute
+10 - Will occur within the next half-hour
+15 – Will occur within the next hour
+20 and up - Will occur in more than an hour
Threat Level:
+0 – Minor (Traffic Accident, a simple mugging attempt)
-10 – Medium (Assassins lying in wait)
-20 – Major (The planet you are on is about to be attacked by the Death Star)
This power can be kept "up" with reservations. The basic “Easy” Danger Sense is always up, but the subsequent, more advanced rolls to identify the source and avoid it must be re-rolled for every threat.
Effect:
Danger Sense allows a Jedi a minor glimpse into the future, specifically detecting any potential dangers the Jedi may encounter in his immediate future. This power functions like an early warning system, allowing the Jedi to detect any attacks before they are made. This gives the Jedi time to decide how to react to the danger. In game terms, if any character is going to attack a Jedi, they must declare their action before it happens. Characters who are going to attack the Jedi may add their Control skill to increase the difficulty of using the power.
Thoughts?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14056
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
Not bad.. other than they can use it as a reaction... normally the jedi has to specify when he/they wish to raise it.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16204
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | Not bad.. other than they can use it as a reaction... normally the jedi has to specify when he/they wish to raise it. |
I know it's a little unbalanced, but the novels are full of incidents where the Jedi is just going about his business, when suddenly he senses danger. He wasn't consciously looking for it, but the Force told him about it regardless.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| crmcneill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Not bad.. other than they can use it as a reaction... normally the jedi has to specify when he/they wish to raise it. |
I know it's a little unbalanced, but the novels are full of incidents where the Jedi is just going about his business, when suddenly he senses danger. He wasn't consciously looking for it, but the Force told him about it regardless. |
I would leave this concept as it always has been; GM discretion.
I dislike the idea of Danger Sense as a reaction skill (though I suppose that it should be noted that I dislike the R&E concept of reaction skills altogether) and do prefer it as an active skill choice.
Classically, by RAW, Force premonitions are a GM tool, rather than a character choice. This allows the GM to use them to further the story, rather than allowing the player to circumvent the story by their unintentional choices. I think it is best left as a GM tool.
_________________
Hotaru no Hishou; a messageboard about games, friends and nothing at all.
Donate to Ankhanu Press |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16204
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Ankhanu wrote: | I would leave this concept as it always has been; GM discretion.
I dislike the idea of Danger Sense as a reaction skill (though I suppose that it should be noted that I dislike the R&E concept of reaction skills altogether) and do prefer it as an active skill choice.
Classically, by RAW, Force premonitions are a GM tool, rather than a character choice. This allows the GM to use them to further the story, rather than allowing the player to circumvent the story by their unintentional choices. I think it is best left as a GM tool. |
By the same token, I've known more than a few GM's who like to have a rule to point to to back up their ruling. Most of the mechanics of this rule would take place with secret rolls behind a GM screen, and all the character would hear is, "You feel a sudden sense of danger. What do you do?"
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Im thinking of redoing Danger Sense too.
I feel that the 'future vision' part of Danger Sense should be much more difficult, and that the power should work in a limited way even if on 'kept up'.
As activated and 'kept up' (Activation is now Easy):
To actually 'see' what will happen one round before will require a difficult roll. Also, that roll is made the round before the 'future' takes place. This way the Jedi cant completely rely on always having a round to TK out of there. The GM, who is about to spring an ambush on the Jedi, asks the Jedi to roll a Sense roll. If its above 'Difficult' he tells the Jedi what is about to happen. If its above Moderate but below Difficult the Jedi only feels that danger is abroad, but cant make out the details.
As a an unactivated power:
The Jedi gets to roll an unmodified Sense roll. The GM tells the Jedi to roll his Sense dice without telling him why. To see one round into the future requires a Very Difficult roll. If the Jedi beats a Difficult roll he will get the the general information that Danger is imminent.
In this sense the power is both weakened, as its harder to get the power working as in the RAW, and enhanced as the Jedi gets to roll even if the power is not activated.
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ZzaphodD wrote: | Im thinking of redoing Danger Sense too.
I feel that the 'future vision' part of Danger Sense should be much more difficult, and that the power should work in a limited way even if on 'kept up'.
As activated and 'kept up' (Activation is now Easy):
To actually 'see' what will happen one round before will require a difficult roll. Also, that roll is made the round before the 'future' takes place. This way the Jedi cant completely rely on always having a round to TK out of there. The GM, who is about to spring an ambush on the Jedi, asks the Jedi to roll a Sense roll. If its above 'Difficult' he tells the Jedi what is about to happen. If its above Moderate but below Difficult the Jedi only feels that danger is abroad, but cant make out the details.
As a an unactivated power:
The Jedi gets to roll an unmodified Sense roll. The GM tells the Jedi to roll his Sense dice without telling him why. To see one round into the future requires a Very Difficult roll. If the Jedi beats a Difficult roll he will get the the general information that Danger is imminent.
In this sense the power is both weakened, as its harder to get the power working as in the RAW, and enhanced as the Jedi gets to roll even if the power is not activated. |
So you never roll against the opponents control or sneak?
_________________
Random is who random does... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Random Numbers wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | Im thinking of redoing Danger Sense too.
I feel that the 'future vision' part of Danger Sense should be much more difficult, and that the power should work in a limited way even if on 'kept up'.
As activated and 'kept up' (Activation is now Easy):
To actually 'see' what will happen one round before will require a difficult roll. Also, that roll is made the round before the 'future' takes place. This way the Jedi cant completely rely on always having a round to TK out of there. The GM, who is about to spring an ambush on the Jedi, asks the Jedi to roll a Sense roll. If its above 'Difficult' he tells the Jedi what is about to happen. If its above Moderate but below Difficult the Jedi only feels that danger is abroad, but cant make out the details.
As a an unactivated power:
The Jedi gets to roll an unmodified Sense roll. The GM tells the Jedi to roll his Sense dice without telling him why. To see one round into the future requires a Very Difficult roll. If the Jedi beats a Difficult roll he will get the the general information that Danger is imminent.
In this sense the power is both weakened, as its harder to get the power working as in the RAW, and enhanced as the Jedi gets to roll even if the power is not activated. |
So you never roll against the opponents control or sneak? |
Ah, control is allready in the rules. Sneak is not according to the RAW. I am thinking about it, but cant really find a good way to balance it. At least, I havent yet.
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16204
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ZzaphodD wrote: | Im thinking of redoing Danger Sense too.
I feel that the 'future vision' part of Danger Sense should be much more difficult, and that the power should work in a limited way even if on 'kept up'.
As activated and 'kept up' (Activation is now Easy):
To actually 'see' what will happen one round before will require a difficult roll. Also, that roll is made the round before the 'future' takes place. This way the Jedi cant completely rely on always having a round to TK out of there. The GM, who is about to spring an ambush on the Jedi, asks the Jedi to roll a Sense roll. If its above 'Difficult' he tells the Jedi what is about to happen. If its above Moderate but below Difficult the Jedi only feels that danger is abroad, but cant make out the details.
As a an unactivated power:
The Jedi gets to roll an unmodified Sense roll. The GM tells the Jedi to roll his Sense dice without telling him why. To see one round into the future requires a Very Difficult roll. If the Jedi beats a Difficult roll he will get the the general information that Danger is imminent.
In this sense the power is both weakened, as its harder to get the power working as in the RAW, and enhanced as the Jedi gets to roll even if the power is not activated. |
I like the simplicity of that. This revised Danger Sense was actually a joint project from a few years back with a friend from the old AOL's old SW-RPG mailing list. I've sat on it for years, but I wanted the list's input.
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Random Numbers wrote: | | So you never roll against the opponents control or sneak? |
Ah, control is allready in the rules. Sneak is not according to the RAW. I am thinking about it, but cant really find a good way to balance it. At least, I havent yet. |
To my way of thinking, Sneak has to do with a being's physical presence, while Danger Sense is detecting the person's intent in the Force. A person who knows they are trying to ambush a Jedi might be forewarned enough to roll Willpower, but even then, that only quiets the person's mind, not their intent. The official Danger Sense seems to be more of the Jedi sensing an imminent event in the near future than any sort of mind-reading.
Perhaps Control could be used by the enemy to hide themselves from the portion of the power that identifies the danger only, so that a Jedi would be aware of the danger, but because his opponent was actively working to conceal himself, identifying the source of that danger would be much more challenging. Until the moment the attacker lunges at him out of the shadows, ala Vader vs. Luke in ESB.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, but I really like the idea of some people being harder to detect.
In a discussion about the convesion of the 40K culexus assassins the idea was to have assassins undetectable by the Jedi. These did not exist in the force so to speak. To a lesser degree specially trained professionals might be harder to detect as they remain calm and non agressive.
If you want to put it into my rules above the reasoning would be that if the Jedi rolled high enough to actually see into the future, Willpower would be of no concern as the Jedi actually could sense the whole thing taking place. However, if the Jedi only managed to pick up a general sense of danger, this migh be from picking up hostile intent and agression. In this case Willpower might be a factor, if the ambusher knows how to make himself harder to pick up. This limits the number to especially trained Jedi-assassins and perhaps Bounty Hunters with lots of Jedi hunting experience. In any case, there cant be that many out there.
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16204
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ZzaphodD wrote: | Yeah, but I really like the idea of some people being harder to detect.
In a discussion about the convesion of the 40K culexus assassins the idea was to have assassins undetectable by the Jedi. These did not exist in the force so to speak. To a lesser degree specially trained professionals might be harder to detect as they remain calm and non agressive.
If you want to put it into my rules above the reasoning would be that if the Jedi rolled high enough to actually see into the future, Willpower would be of no concern as the Jedi actually could sense the whole thing taking place. However, if the Jedi only managed to pick up a general sense of danger, this migh be from picking up hostile intent and agression. In this case Willpower might be a factor, if the ambusher knows how to make himself harder to pick up. This limits the number to especially trained Jedi-assassins and perhaps Bounty Hunters with lots of Jedi hunting experience. In any case, there cant be that many out there. |
.
I've always thought that detecting harmful intent from a person's mental state would be a nice addition to Life Detection. After all, the Force adept is sensing the being's "aura" (for lack of a better word), and sensing it well enough to know if they have encountered this particular being before or not. I would suggest additional difficulty levels that would allow the Jedi to identify not only beings he has encountered before, but also if he knows them personally and what their general mental state is, almost like empathy.
On a side note, I've also considered changing the range on Life Detection from 10 meters to (10 x the character's Sense Dice) + (3 x pips) in meters, so that an adept with Life Detection and a Sense of 8D+2 could sense out to 86 meters away. But I digress.
I think Danger Sense should strictly be the realm of a precognitive sense, as in a limited and highly specific form of Farseeing, and that reading the intent of a person's mind is outside of its scope.
I like the idea of a Culexus Assassin. Stats-wise, the WH40K Assassins are even more formidable than Space Marines, and one that couldn't be sensed in the Force would be truly terrifying. I don't know if the idea of a pariah would translate well from WH40K to Star Wars, since the SWU doesn't have the Warp, but having such a character be a Force void like the Yuuzhan-Vong, would definitely prove useful against a Force Adept. Perhaps they could even have an ability like the Ysalamiri; to consciously dampen the Force in their immediate area.
Also, how much do you think the Yuuzhan-Vong's lack of Force presence affects Jedi abilities. I have heard multiple variations throughout the NJO series, that the Force did not affect them at all, that while the mental powers, like Life Detection and Force Detection, didn't work, other abilities, like Telekinesis and Danger Sense wouldn't be (I think it was in The Unifying Force that Luke considers that he could use Telekinesis to manipulate Harrar the priest, but he couldn't sense him or read his mind).
Perhaps, because of their presence in the Unifying Force, but not the Living Force, a Yuuzhan-Vong (or a Culexus Assassin) would still set off the Jedi's Danger Sense), but leave them unable to identify the source. As far as lightsaber combat goes, IMO, when fighting a Vong, the Jedi's Control and Sense bonuses should be reduced by 1/2 (rounded up).
Thoughts?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Are droids then ivisible to danger sense?
_________________
Random is who random does... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| crmcneill wrote: | I like the idea of a Culexus Assassin. Stats-wise, the WH40K Assassins are even more formidable than Space Marines, and one that couldn't be sensed in the Force would be truly terrifying. I don't know if the idea of a pariah would translate well from WH40K to Star Wars, since the SWU doesn't have the Warp, but having such a character be a Force void like the Yuuzhan-Vong, would definitely prove useful against a Force Adept. Perhaps they could even have an ability like the Ysalamiri; to consciously dampen the Force in their immediate area.
|
We play in a pre Ep IV timeline, so no Vuzang, and also I hate the concept.
However, someone here pointed out that there are few individuals who are born 'outside' the force. The Empire could within the Culexus assassin project either seek out those at young age for training or manage (with great difficulty) to clone a couple of clones with similar 'abilities'.
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16204
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Random Numbers wrote: | | Are droids then ivisible to danger sense? |
Good point. I think the real question is the degree to which the Yuuzhan-Vong are disconnected from the Force, as in, are they more connected to it than droids, just as, or less?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16204
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ZzaphodD wrote: | We play in a pre Ep IV timeline, so no Vuzang, and also I hate the concept.
However, someone here pointed out that there are few individuals who are born 'outside' the force. The Empire could within the Culexus assassin project either seek out those at young age for training or manage (with great difficulty) to clone a couple of clones with similar 'abilities'. |
Actually, most examples of Force disconnection seem to be inflicted, usually by a Force adept of some power. That might be something Palpy could inflict on elite clones to gain assassins that would be invisible in the Force.
As far as the Yuuzhan-Vong, they make sense with the explanation from the Unifying Force; an entire race of beings cut off from the Force by a Death Star-Scale Force user.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
