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Chandra Mindarass
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 Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: Snowtroopers |
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Do you consider them to be stormtroopers? I always had the impression, that the attack on Hoth was carried out by the Imperial Army. They wear a variation of the army armor and the officers even have rank badges, there's no black body glove and I haven't seen one running against doors.
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Jedi Skyler
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| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| I believe they are actual specially-trained stormtroopers. I also think we don't see the body glove is because the armor design is more sealed off to conserve body heat, but it's probably still under there. |
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Skaff Toxian
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| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree with Skyler. Snowtroopers are specially trained Stormtroopers to operate in hazarduos envoirments. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| Jedi Skyler wrote: | | I believe they are actual specially-trained stormtroopers. I also think we don't see the body glove is because the armor design is more sealed off to conserve body heat, but it's probably still under there. |
Agreed. The snowtroopers are even listed as having the same bodyglove under the armor, but due to it';s coveage we cannot see it.
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Jedi Skyler
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| As I understand it, (and I could be wrong), ALL ______troopers come from base stormtrooper stock. Whether conscripted into the special units just for bodies or picked due to performance or backgrounds, each special type receives extra training pertaining to the specific terrain they'll be operating in. |
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Skaff Toxian
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Sounds realistic to me. |
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Chandra Mindarass
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm...it never made any sense to me. They wear different armor, which is much more like the army's model and have rank insignia AND they never run into any doorframes!
  
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masque
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:37 am Post subject: |
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They're specifically delineated in the Imperial Sourcebook as part of the Stormtrooper corps. If they wear white and you can't see their faces, they're probably stormtroopers. With the exception of the Death Star gunners and TIE pilots, all other Imperial military forces I'm aware of have open faced helmets.
Any time you see ground combat in the Holy Trilogy, it's stormtroopers doing it, with the exception of a few officers and support people from the Army, manning the AT-ATs and AT-STs, and techs in the bunker at Endor. That's because we only see the beginning of battles in the movies. The stormtroopers operate like the US Marines, they go in first and take the ground, and the Army comes in later and holds it. Since there aren't really any holding actions going on in the movies (the Rebels either were defeated and in full retreat or were victorious), you don't see much of the Army, except in those logistical roles (i.e. manning the generator at Endor).
The other fact of the matter regarding movie visibility is that the stormtroopers are simply flashier, and bound to get more screen time.
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masque
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:09 am Post subject: |
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From wikipedia:
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In non-combat situations, a stormtrooper officer wears a black officer uniform, insignia, and a garrison cap. All stormtrooper officers wear the characteristic white armor during action. In some situations (emphasis added), they wear standard Rank Insignia of the Galactic Empire (rank squares) over the armor so their rank is apparent to non-stormtroopers. |
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Chandra Mindarass
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | They're specifically delineated in the Imperial Sourcebook as part of the Stormtrooper corps. |
I was aware, that WEG listed them as stormies, but they also listed the Executor at 8km length, while it has 19,000km. I love their rules, but their stats cause me stomach pains sometimes.
| Quote: | | The stormtroopers operate like the US Marines, they go in first and take the ground, and the Army comes in later and holds it. |
Sure they go in first, but they also have traits of the SS, Iraqi Republican Guards or other political paramilitary forces. The opening battle in Episode IV is fought by stormtroopers under direct command of Darth Vader, who was not superiour to the Imperial Admirality back then. He could command stormies, but the Generals were still annoyed by the fact that the Emperor's bandog was dabbling with military affairs. The guy in the black uniform, telling Vader his concerns about the Senate's reaction is not wearing a rank badge, so I guess he's what Stormies look like "naked". (If they haven't been retconned to be all clones, yet.)
It might even make sense to say that both army and Stormtrooper corps use the same arctic gear, which would explain, why the (army?) Lieutenant or Captain in the right pic wears a badge, while the (stormy?) gang, from which the left pic is taken wear no such insignia. An argument for them being Stormies, is that they go in right before Vader, but he had full control of his own fleet at that point anyway.
| Quote: | | If they wear white and you can't see their faces, they're probably stormtroopers. |
Well, the AT-AT pilots are wearing a white and grey version of the TIE pilot suit, which makes them even stormier - still they are Imperial Army. That's why I drew the conclusion, that the Snowtroopers might be, too.
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Xynar
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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But TIE pilots aren't stormies. Also think of it this way, think of the cost savings for using the same component designs. That would make sense as the Empire also loves modular construction.
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masque
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Chandra Mindarass wrote: |
I was aware, that WEG listed them as stormies, but they also listed the Executor at 8km length, while it has 19,000km. I love their rules, but their stats cause me stomach pains sometimes. |
I'm aware that some of their stats can be off, but I don't see this as an error. Every other reference to snowtroopers puts them as a type of stormtrooper as well, which helps.
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Sure they go in first, but they also have traits of the SS, Iraqi Republican Guards or other political paramilitary forces. |
I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. I'm well aware of all that, but I was talking about their tactical use, not political. The SS and the Republican Guard were also used by their respective nations as "first in" shock troops. I'm not equating the Marines with them morally, just tactically.
| Quote: | | The opening battle in Episode IV is fought by stormtroopers under direct command of Darth Vader, who was not superiour to the Imperial Admirality back then. He could command stormies, but the Generals were still annoyed by the fact that the Emperor's bandog was dabbling with military affairs. The guy in the black uniform, telling Vader his concerns about the Senate's reaction is not wearing a rank badge, so I guess he's what Stormies look like "naked". (If they haven't been retconned to be all clones, yet.) |
http://theforce.net/swtc/insignia/uniforms.html
For a specific ST officer:
http://theforce.net/swtc/Pix/cards/ccg/praji.jpg
| Quote: | | It might even make sense to say that both army and Stormtrooper corps use the same arctic gear, which would explain, why the (army?) Lieutenant or Captain in the right pic wears a badge, while the (stormy?) gang, from which the left pic is taken wear no such insignia. An argument for them being Stormies, is that they go in right before Vader, but he had full control of his own fleet at that point anyway. |
I did point out a reference that states that STs sometimes have rank insignia on their armor. As for Army and ST corp using the same armor, I have no problem with that, as General Veers breastplate is obviously the same (except for color) to what the snowtroopers are wearing. Modular design, as mentioned by Xynar explains that well enough; I don't, however, see the Army wearing FULL ST armor, it being a bit of a point of pride.
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Well, the AT-AT pilots are wearing a white and grey version of the TIE pilot suit, which makes them even stormier - still they are Imperial Army. That's why I drew the conclusion, that the Snowtroopers might be, too. |
Enlarge my "TIE pilots" distinction to cover all non-capital pilots, then. Unless they choose not to.
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Last edited by masque on Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Chandra Mindarass
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Joined: 01 Jun 2005
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Location: Hilden, Germany
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:47 am Post subject: |
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Another take. The guys going in with Vader were Stormtroopers. No armor insignia, E-11s and being first in. Given Hoth's extreme climate, which seems to be somewhat worse than on "normal" ice planets, maybe the Stormtroopers "borrowed" army armor. The lieutenant or captain on the AT-AT was army. He is the only white armored trooper with rank insignia. I see no other in-universe reason for the Snowtroopers wearing, what is clearly army armor.
| Quote: | | I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. |
Both groups I mentioned weren't reporting to the equivalent army high command but to the political leaders themselves. The SS was a state within the state and the Republican Guard were Hussein's personal goons. The regular troops hated them and they were also used as political police within the battlefield.
I was totally off with Stormtroopers in uniforms wearing no insignia. Mea culpa, I shouldn't try to imagine patterns when probably there aren't any.
WTF?! BLACK shoulder straps?! 
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Chandra Mindarass
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Location: Hilden, Germany
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| Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:15 am Post subject: |
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theforce.net wrote:
| Quote: | Stormtrooper Officer [battle dress uniform]
* Stormtrooper armour and helmet appropriate to unit and environment.
* When present, a coloured pauldron at right shoulder indicates rank.
* Badge of rank squares at left breast (when pauldron absent), possibly optional.
* Stormtrooper belt with utility boxes.
* Blaster holster. |
I cannot think of any example, except the guy on the AT-AT, IF he was a Stormtrooper at all, which I don't believe at the moment. Can anybody think of another example from the movies?
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masque
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