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cheshire
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 Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Gry Sarth wrote: |
About that PDF you posted, are you sure those are ALL of Wizards Force Powers not covered by WEG? There are other books besides Hero's Guide that were not covered by The Rebellion. Are you sure there are no new powers in books like Geonosis and the Outer Rim, Galactic Campaign Guide, Ultimate Alien Anthlogy and Ultimate Adversaries? |
Yes, there are other Force abilities/feats/skills in some of the other WotC books. However, when I looked into them, most of them were either inaplicable in the D6 system (i.e., a Force feat adding a +2 bonus to diplomacy checks), or they were d20 conversions of D6 powers. No need to mess.
I'm not leaving out the possibility that I'm missing something, but I've checked it as completely as I could with the indicies I had. I even asked for help on another board, and they kept turning up more and more powers converted FROM D6.
Oh, BTW, I'm using combining the Force Sight suggested here with another power.
I'll take another look at the Morichro power in the original d20 text to see what could be done with that. |
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Gry Sarth
Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5304
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I think you probably have all the neccesary d20 powers, I was just trying to be sure.
I took a quick look at the d20 Machiro power, and I think there are a couple of things missing from that conversion, like the fact that the target will wake up if he's wounded, or he'll stay that way until he dies if noething is done to him.
I was thinking about this book organization, and I was wondering if perhaps it would be better NOT to divide those powers into chapters like WEG, Wizards, fan-made... Perhaps just have all the power in the usual Force Skill/alphabetical order, but use some code (besides the Source line) to make it clear which powers are not official WEG ones. Like some color code, or maybe a small Wizards logo next to d20 conversions and some other symbol next to fan-made powers, just so you can have all the powers cohesively in one place, but you can easily disregard the sources you don't much care for.
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Gry Sarth
Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5304
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:11 am Post subject: |
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I was thinking about the Redirect Energy power, and I'm wondering if it's really needed. First of all, in Ep2 we don't really see Yoda actually redirecting Dooku's Force Lightning against him, so we have no evidence that can be done. All we see is Yoda sort of deflecting the bolt to the ceiling, and he only does that once. What we see Yoda doing most is simply absorbing the power. So I'm thinking that could be all simply Absorb/Dissipate Energy, and that stray bolt could just be the Dissipate aspect of it. A Jedi cannot deflect Force Lightning back at his attacker, just like he cannot deflect blaster bolts, that's why they use lightsabers for that.
Whaddya think? I believe the less fan-made powers we need, the better.
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PsiberDragon
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Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:22 am Post subject: |
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I kinda agree with Gry Sarth.
Too many fan based powers that I've seen are either: a) basically just modifications of powers that are already in existance; or b) someone trying to REALLY munchkin out a jedi, who don't need it to begin with.
As for how the "book" is divided, I think that alphabetical works best. If you need to put where it came from, and don't want to cite your source at the end, then some kind of symbol would be appropriate.
My only other thought (and yes, it's gonna be a little silly, I know) is color coding which powers give a dark side point or some such, so that wanna be Jedi can do a quick reference and see which powers they might wanna stay away from...
Again, just my 2 centicreds...
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Gry Sarth
Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004
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Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:51 am Post subject: |
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I don't think it's silly at all to color-code dark side powers. We had even discussed putting them in a completely different chapter. It really makes sense to mark them, because most of the time Jedi players don't want anything to do with force powers that automatically give a DSP.
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cheshire
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Gry Sarth wrote: | I was thinking about the Redirect Energy power, and I'm wondering if it's really needed. First of all, in Ep2 we don't really see Yoda actually redirecting Dooku's Force Lightning against him, so we have no evidence that can be done. All we see is Yoda sort of deflecting the bolt to the ceiling, and he only does that once. What we see Yoda doing most is simply absorbing the power. So I'm thinking that could be all simply Absorb/Dissipate Energy, and that stray bolt could just be the Dissipate aspect of it. A Jedi cannot deflect Force Lightning back at his attacker, just like he cannot deflect blaster bolts, that's why they use lightsabers for that.
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If I'm not mistaken, in the theatrical release, he just deflects it into the ceiling. On the US DVD release, he throws it back at Tyranus who then deflects it to the ceiling. However, one way or another, the power doesn't contribute all that much.
| Gry Sarth wrote: |
Whaddya think? I believe the less fan-made powers we need, the better. |
Right now, I've got eleven fan-made powers that are being seriously considered. At that point it's really a pickle as to whether or not they go in at all. Particularly if we go about editing the book so that all the powers are mixed together alphebetically. On that subject...
| Gry Sarth wrote: |
I was thinking about this book organization, and I was wondering if perhaps it would be better NOT to divide those powers into chapters like WEG, Wizards, fan-made... Perhaps just have all the power in the usual Force Skill/alphabetical order, but use some code (besides the Source line) to make it clear which powers are not official WEG ones. Like some color code, or maybe a small Wizards logo next to d20 conversions and some other symbol next to fan-made powers, just so you can have all the powers cohesively in one place, but you can easily disregard the sources you don't much care for. |
Hmm... There remains one more thing. Right now I've maintained the two sections of the TotJC, dividing the powers into Jedi powers (both light and dark side powers mixed together) and then a separate Sith Powers section. So, right now it's divided up into Jedi, Sith, Converted, Fan-made.
I think the first question we need to look at is whether or not the fan-made section should stay in, and then how do we edit together the rest.
I'll post the fan-made powers is a bit. Note that this is before I've made any decisions about a final cut. |
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cheshire
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, I figured I'd just go ahead and upload the whole work in progress. I've entitled it the Force Powers R&E only to distinguish it from my older Force Powers document. It's nearing a completed form, but there's a lot of work that still has to be done. 1) I've got to double check the converted powers to see that there's nothing really missing from the text. 2) I've got to make sure the formating is consistent. 3) I need to proof read for typos. 4) I've got to decide if/how to modify the home-brew powers.
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Force Powers RandE.pdf - 193 KB
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=CC41FF4F39401AE4
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From here we can get a better idea as for as what to do about organization.
I'm not opposed to the idea of identifying the powers that would give DSPs, but maybe that's something that can be done in the table of contents. I have a version of the old Force Power Document in a three-ring binder. I made a table of contents page, and I just had a little symbol (I don't know what it's called, but it looks kind of like a cross) to show that the power awards DSPs. Though, that requires more work from the final editor, so that would be up to Gry. Also remember that many people will be printing this up on B&W printers. I'd hate for the color coding to get lost and then become useless for them. |
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Gry Sarth
Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004
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Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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That`s great Cheshire! I`m really torn as to whether to divide the powers into chapters, like they are now, or have them all together with some special identification code. Both have their advantages and disadvanteges... So, could everyone chime in with what they would rather see in the book?
I do think we should have the Fan-made section, as there are some good and important things in there, though we must certainly look at each power carefully to make sure it is really neccessary and can`t be improved in some way.
PS: I`d really like some input on my latest entries in the Force Jump thread.
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cheshire
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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My personal opinion, I think that there is a great service done in keeping them separated. I've seen several Force Powers web pages with fan-made powers mixed in. (Seldom do I see converted powers mixed in.) I think it keeps it very simple and memorable as to which are official and which are not. Perhaps it might be because it seems like blending them together gives the fan-made or converted some sort of tacit authenticity that they don't really have.
The only major advantage that I see in blending them together would be finding the particular power you're looking for. However, with a good index or table of contents (which the TotJ lacked) it would be a moot point.
Just my two cents. Feel free to chime in. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Gry Sarth wrote: | I believe these three powers so far presented are valid powers to be included. Yoda uses Redirect Energy in Ep2, the Miraluka do have a Force Sight and it's feasible that other Jedi should be able to have it as well, and I think Force Stun might be what Qui-Gon used on Jar Jar in the Bongo.
If the mechanics are top notch, that's another question, and one which I'll take a little time to answer fully.
So far, I do think Force Stun should work on contact only. I don't see a Jedi waving his hand and enemies 50m away dropping unconcious, it feels wrong. Walking up to an enemy and doing the "Force Vulcan pinch" seems more plausable. I'd also allow Perception to resist the Control roll, and it needs some prerequisites like "accelerate another's healing" and maybe "Dim another's senses". |
I agree there. Or better yet make it like life sense, where it has a 10 meter radius.,.. and give it range brackets inside that 10 meters..
| Quote: | | I believe this power shouldn't be limited to redirecting the energy into an attack. (I know I'll be hearing some groans when I mention the EU, but I'm going there anyway.) In the book "I, Jedi," Corran Horn absorbs stinger bolts from a remote and channels that energy into a shield to protect himself and Mara Jade from further attacks, since they were both faltering in blocking the bolts with their lightsabers. I personally interpret this to mean the Jedi is able to channel this new incoming energy into different Force effects. In other places in that same book, both Corran and his ancestor Neeja Halcyon Absorb energy and channel it into Telekinesis, a Force power that the Halcyon line is notoriously un-talented in. |
Hows aout making it, where they could gain 1d bonus to alter for TK use, for every 3d of absorbed energy...
| Quote: | | A lower-ranked Jedi might be able to pull it off if they A)Sense the impending attack through Danger Sense or by simply winning initiative, and B)are able to use Concentration to use the bonus +4D to make the roll with. Even with that, though, it'll require enough time to bring Concentration to bear, so it's going to be a close one regardless, which still makes it somewhat unadviseable for the neophyte looking to live to the next battle. |
Problem there is they cannot use concentration in a round they take more than one action (OTHER THAN THE concentration). So they could not use a 2 skill force power with concentration..
As for me. I have several posted here like force rage (the dark flame one), influence mind (the emotion changer)....
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PsiberDragon
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Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | My personal opinion, I think that there is a great service done in keeping them separated. I've seen several Force Powers web pages with fan-made powers mixed in. (Seldom do I see converted powers mixed in.) I think it keeps it very simple and memorable as to which are official and which are not. Perhaps it might be because it seems like blending them together gives the fan-made or converted some sort of tacit authenticity that they don't really have.
The only major advantage that I see in blending them together would be finding the particular power you're looking for. However, with a good index or table of contents (which the TotJ lacked) it would be a moot point. |
I like what you've done so far - looks excellent. I think leaving them separate is a good idea, personally. My thoughts on TOC or index is have them both. I realize this could be a major undertaking, but my reasoning is thus: The TOC shows the breakdown of the force powers into Jedi/Sith/Fan and Control/Sense/Alter. The index at the back would list all of them in alphabetical order.
*shrugs* Again, just my 2 centicreds...
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Gry Sarth
Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004
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Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| PsiberDragon wrote: | | My thoughts on TOC or index is have them both. I realize this could be a major undertaking, but my reasoning is thus: The TOC shows the breakdown of the force powers into Jedi/Sith/Fan and Control/Sense/Alter. The index at the back would list all of them in alphabetical order. |
I agree, that's what I've always done for my Stats books. Have the Table of Contents in the beginning with everything in the order it's presented in the book, and have an Index in the back with everything in alphabetical order, so that you can quickly find exactly the power you're looking for.
Changing subject, I'd like to endorse two fan-made powers from the Jedi Handbook: Raise/Lower Temperature and Resonate. I think both make sense and are not overpowered. Influencing the temperature around you seems like a Jedi-thing to me. Resonate is a specialized use of Telekinesis which can be used in many different ways. A character of mine once used it on a frozen lake to heat up and melt the ice right below the surface, creating a trap.
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Chandra Mindarass
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 152
Location: Hilden, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:08 am Post subject: |
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I can offer the power Cloak Perception, but I still have to write it down properly and get my Rulebook back. Just gimme 5 days.
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Gry Sarth
Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5304
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:18 am Post subject: |
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Sounds like a "Dim Other's Senses" variable, is that it?
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cheshire
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Resonate
Alter Difficulty: Moderate; modified by Proximity and Material Strength.
This power may be kept "up."
WARNING: Use of this power against living matter will give the Jedi a Dark Side Point.
Required Power: Telekinesis
Effect: This power allows the Jedi to set up a resonance in an object or area. This could serve various purposes: rub air molecules together to produce light and heat; to create a tremor to shake someone off their feet; to shatter a weapon in someone’s hand.
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If this goes in, I'd like to see what we can do about manipulating things at the molecular level. It seems a bit much. As far as creating tremors to knock someone off their feet or destroying weapons, it seems that this can be done with telekinesis.
| Quote: |
Raise/Lower Temperature
Alter Difficulty: Very Easy => 5 Degrees Centigrade Change
Easy => 10 Degrees Centigrade Change
Moderate => 15 Degrees Centigrade Change
Difficult => 20 Degrees Centigrade Change
Very Diff => 25 Degrees Centigrade Change
This power may be kept up.
Effect: Affects a 20 meter diameter circle, with target change at center (with user) and reducing 5 degrees every 5 meters from user.
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It isn't my favorite power, but it sounds alright. I think the range is a bit far though, but I'm open to being convinced otherwise. |
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