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Artillery.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:24 am    Post subject: Artillery. Reply with quote

I am thinking of making up another of my modules, where i might have the pcs take over artillery positions for defense of a base (or maybe reverse it, where the arty is their target)..

Now since most artillery of the 'shoot out a shell' type has proven "fire it at this angle/elevation" it will take X seconds to land at grid ref 89.56.26.1234. With that in mind i have a few questions..

1) if i am aming at a specific grid point, and some 'targets wind up wandering into the field of fire' would that change the 'to hit rol' to be trying to hit them or would they still be shooting the specific grid point?
2) if a target is moving at a known / constant speed and direction, would it be a know/mech or tech roll to figure out what 'grid ref' they would be at in X min/sec?
3) Since most arty shells are subsonic, the 'targets' won't hear the shells until they are already hitting the ground. So what would be a 'realistic reason' (whether the pcs or for the npcs) for them to get a perception check/warning?
4) would field cannons/artillery (like say a 155 mm howizer be walker or speeder scale??
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Grimace
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coming from the perspective that my best friend was in artillery while in the Marines, and also that I've picked his brain on artillery for a miniature tanks ruleset, I'll offer some opinions.

1. If the artillery is pre-plotted and zeroed in on a grid coordinate, the rounds will hit that spot...no questions asked. If a vehicle, person or group wanders into that spot, they will suffer damage when the artillery comes in. That's why it's pre-plotted. Typically this is done against static locations of importance....crossroads, hills of strategic importance, stuff like that. So, if anyone is in that spot, they'll suffer damage, but it can be of varying amounts. Not everyone at that spot will suffer the same damage, simply due to the nature of artillery.

2. Trying to plot artillery to land on a moving target is a trigonomic calculation that would fall under a mix of math and artillery use. What attribute you put those under, I don't know. One thing I have been told, it ain't easy and you generally need a battery firing pretty steadily to hit a moving target. One artillery piece has about as much chance of hitting a single moving target as a blaster has of shooting down a Corellian Corvette.

3. Realistic reason for hearing the artillery incoming is the rather fast moving, large round moving through the air. There IS sound...not as loud or obvious as the movies make it out to be...when a round is incoming. That usually gives people times to realize something is inbound and take cover, but it's doubtful they could run out of a pre-plotted coordinate. They're best hope is finding something to hide behind, and hope the shell doesn't land on them or behind them, or laying flat on the ground and hoping the shell doesn't land on them or very close to them. Getting below the level of ground is best...thus why soldiers dig foxholes.

4. Speeder scale.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coolness. Did not know you had such a caried friend base..

Quote:
Realistic reason for hearing the artillery incoming is the rather fast moving, large round moving through the air. There IS sound...not as loud or obvious as the movies make it out to be...when a round is incoming


But would the shell not be moving faster than the sound it is making??
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Gry Sarth
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because, as you said, they are subsonic, not supersonic, right?
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scott2978
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple things to ponder:

1. Is projectile artillery considered "Archaic artillery?"

2. I would just treat it as area affect weapon, like a really big long range grenade throw. I'd only allow for "time to target" if the distances were REALLY far. Even targets several miles away can be hit within the timespan of one combat round I'd say. That way you can eliminate the "wandering into the blast radius" problem too.


Scott
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Subsonic is what i know most artillery rounds to be, but iirc the compression wave (which is what makes the whissiling sound) is still 'following' the shell. Grimmy if that is wrong, please correct me.

And scott, that is what i am trying to figure out, whether it would be archaic artillery, artillery operations (like ground vehicle ops), or something else..

What would say a 155mm howitzer's blast radi be? I am looking at/thinking of 0-5 - 5d+1/6-12 - 4d+1/13-18 - 3d+1 (speeder scale) for the bl radi and damage..
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Jedi Skyler
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grimace wrote:
2. Trying to plot artillery to land on a moving target is a trigonomic calculation that would fall under a mix of math and artillery use. What attribute you put those under, I don't know. One thing I have been told, it ain't easy and you generally need a battery firing pretty steadily to hit a moving target. One artillery piece has about as much chance of hitting a single moving target as a blaster has of shooting down a Corellian Corvette.


That'd be "Kentucky Windage"

Razz
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL...
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bringing this back up for the 3rd question point about 'hearing a whistle'. Talking to some mortar bubs, 2 of which WERE under mortar fire in Afgan, many mentioned they didn't hear ANYTHING till the big boom of a shell landing.
One who was also under fire from artillery several years earlier mentioned by the time he heard a slight high pitched whistle, it was already too late to do much other than duck.

So with that in mind, what would the 'search/perception' check be to even hear such incoming munitions?
Would it allow a regular dodge roll, or a lessened one?
If someone 'fails to hear' would you treat it as a surprise attack?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Difficult to Very Difficult
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would hearing it just give a dodge to lessen damage (since shots would be targeting a specific spot not a person), or alleviate it all together like with grenades?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Would hearing it just give a dodge to lessen damage (since shots would be targeting a specific spot not a person), or alleviate it all together like with grenades?

If throwing yourself to the ground with your hands over your head counts as a dodge, then sure, but the blast effects for artillery weapons are going to be spread over a much wider area than a grenade.

The solution I used for gravity bombs was to give them each a Dice value to generate a scatter distance in meters, but it also subtracts the scatter distance from the damage roll.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So when 'working out difficulties' to hit a target zone, what mods would there be?

Sight. Indirect fire is notorious for missing due to not being able to see where you are hitting. But would having a spotter make it easier?
Say Within Los, +0 to the difficulty to hit.
Not in LoS, but having a spotter radio in, +5
Not having a spotter, but having detailed maps +10
Having neither a spotter nor maps. +15

Windage:
no wind either way, +0
Headwind or tail wind. +5
Cross winds. Per 15mph +5.

Would precipitation make it harder or not to hit a target?

How far off would a miss make things?

Would scale be a modifier? IE if a walker size artillery piece was wanting to hit a 'grid spot' of 10m by 10m, and 2 characters are within that spot, would the 'scale diff of walker to character matter'?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Sight. Indirect fire is notorious for missing due to not being able to see where you are hitting. But would having a spotter make it easier?
Say Within Los, +0 to the difficulty to hit.
Not in LoS, but having a spotter radio in, +5
Not having a spotter, but having detailed maps +10
Having neither a spotter nor maps. +15

This is sci-fi, so a character could have an advanced scope on his blaster rifle that either transmits targeting information to the artillery unit, or could serve as a designator for guided artillery, kinda like the Copperhead missile...

You could also have aerial spotter droids, like advanced versions of modern drones. The spotter droids could even be artillery deployed; fire one to the area of the target, and at a certain altitude above ground, it deploys its own propulsion system and starts scanning the ground and looking for targets.

Of course, then you start getting into counter-artillery fire, using auto-blasters to shoot down the drones or intercept the inbound artillery...

Quote:
Windage:
no wind either way, +0
Headwind or tail wind. +5
Cross winds. Per 15mph +5.

Don't forget gusting wind vs. steady wind.

Quote:
Would scale be a modifier? IE if a walker size artillery piece was wanting to hit a 'grid spot' of 10m by 10m, and 2 characters are within that spot, would the 'scale diff of walker to character matter'?

I doubt it. Alternately, you could go with some variant of the Barrage Rules, since the guns are being aimed not so much as the characters as the area in which they are in.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Artillery has the potential to be a fun mission, if you plan it right. If it is a self-propelled weapon, like an SWU equivalent of the M109 Paladin, you could have one character driving, one character running the spotter drone (or whatever), one firing the cannon itself and one more handling a defensive turret to shoot down incoming counter-battery fire. An Alliance artillery unit would almost have to operate using shoot-and-scoot tactics, relocating to a new firing position every few shots...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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