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Advantages & Disadvantages.
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AcesAndEights
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that flaws and merits (or advantages & disadvantages) should be part of character background, but i think that this gives some balance in that it will allow to create really flawed characters without completely hindering your in game usefulness.

For instance, in one of the games I'm in, I'm playing a Bothan spy-type character. I took straight disadvantages based on my characters background. They were vengeful, hatred of authority/racism (bothans & anzati), hunted(2) and paranoia (more so than a normal bothan) and I started with two dark side points. The GM, in order to offset my character's disadvantages, gave me 1D in an advanced skill that fit with my character and 2D to my willpower skill. I did not ask for either of these. I really wanted to play an extremely flawed character, but he saw fit to give me a slight leg up based on my characters background and it has seemed to work out alright.

As a side note, that particular game is extremely character and/or story driven. Upon character creation, you give your biography to the GM and he gives you 3-15 CP for it, based on creativity, originality, playability, etc. He also rewards characters for creative solutions to problems (I.E., one of our players is a bartender. Someone came into the bar looking to kill him. The player asked who was sitting around him, the GM said 2 Bith, a Zabrak, and a Wookiee. The player told the Wookiee he would give him free drinks for the rest of the night if he would take care of the guy. Needless to say that the Wookiee came back with two arms and was plastered by the end of the night.) Of course, from some of the other things I have posted, it seems that the games I'm in are run quite a bit differently than a lot of others.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

masque wrote:

Because the reward has already been given. If you take advantages, you have to spend points to buy them. If you take disadvantages, you get extra points to spend. It wouldn't make sense to give a character bonus points for taking a disadvantage, and then MORE points for playing out that disadvantage.


Perhaps I wasn't clear. There wouldn't be any advantage at the point of character creation, just during game play.

Though, you guys have raised some good points. I'll have to think about this.
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masque
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:

Perhaps I wasn't clear. There wouldn't be any advantage at the point of character creation, just during game play.

The method I was describing is the way an advantage/disadvantage system works in most games that use them. I know GURPS does it that way, and I think the new D6 does, as well. I like those types of systems, but haven't used them in Star Wars.

You sound like you're describing a system that is based purely on character background, which sounds interesting, but I haven't tried it.
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AcesAndEights
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its not based completely on character background, but the GM would prevent some one from taking a serious advantage or disadvantage that didn't mesh well with the character. Of course some of the advantages and disadvantages wouldn't really have a major impact on the character's background.

For instance, the ambidextrous or acute hearing advantages wouldn't really need a reason to be in one's background. However, something like a phobia or vengefulness would require some kind of reasoning.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's another thing... there really wouldn't be a way to do a similar system for advantages. I think this would only work for disadvantages.

Of course, I've never had a problem getting a player to use advantages... getting them to roleplay disadvantages is the issue. Smile
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AcesAndEights
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that completely true. I know my GM made one of the other players work in their second identity advantage. It really just depends on if it is something that would be noted in your characters biography.

An example would be my Bothan's willpower. I was given the extra 2D in it because my character resisted torture and interrogation for an extremely long time. It was already written in, and had a significant impact on the character's history, it just wasn't something I specifically asked for.
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Tupteq
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Official D6 rules for A/D/SA improving:
Advantages
There are two methods for acquiring Advantages: (1) the player pays, in CP, 5 times the rank of advantage. (2) The player takes an equivalent amount of dice in Disadvantages and pays a number CP equal to the rank of Advantage.In either case, the player must come with a well-crafted story for getting the new Advantage that's backed at actual experiences in one or more adventures. The story, and it's related Advantage must be approved by GM.
Generally, a player may not remove an Advantage from a character, but it might be lost in the course of roleplaying due to player negligence (that is, continuously bad roleplaying or ignoring Disadvantages) or some tragic game-world mishap (such as Patron's city being destroyed). If the loss occured through no fault of the character, the GM may give the player a consolation gift of 3 CPs per rank in the Advantage, or may substitute an equally valuable Advantage. GMs should not reward the lost of an Advantage through player negligence.
Disadvantages
There are also two methods for permanently overcoming a Disadvantage: (1) The player pays 10 times the dice code of the Disadvantage. (2) The player loses an equal number of Advantages and pays a number of CPs equal to the die code of Disadvantage. As with advantages, the player must have a good tale and the character has adequate adventuring experience before the GM should approve the loss of any Disadvantage.
While player wishes to add another Disadvantage to her hero, she receives an immediate bonus for this choice if she isn't using the Disadvantage to help her get a new Advantage. For new disadvantage, the character receives a number of CPs equal to 3 times the die code of Disadvantage. However, the character now has a new limitation to contend with!
_______________________________________

Personally I use slightly different rules. To simplify things I make no difference between Special Ability and Advantage. Both cost 5CP/point/level. To overcome disadvantage I want a 6CP/point + a good story from player. Also most of A/D must have their reason in character history and I often propose A/D after I read a history of PC.
There's one more trick I use to get great history for character from my players - a bribe Very Happy - I'm adding up to 6 pips to PC's skills (usually to these not raised by PC) reflecting character's earlier life.
Example: I read in history: "Then I spent next two years in exile on this forgotten by gods desert planet." - +1D survival: desert, which is 1 pip.
Example: I read "I brought up in peaceful and lawful planet" - it means well organized society, +2 to bureaucracy.
Example: "I spent my childhood in home with my mother" - a sissy Wink +2 to cooking (I think perception based).
In general I'm trying to add bonuses in unexpected places Laughing

Here are advantages/disadvantages I use in addition to those from D6 Space, some are found in internet, other are created by me:

Advantages and Special Abilities:
6th Sense (2) - GM's discretion (force sensitivity recommended)
Armor proficiency (1, 3) - Reduces up to 1D DEX penalty for one armor type (1) or all types (3)
Dual Identity (2) - Two sets of complete identification
Eidetic Memory (2) - The character has a photographic memory
Fearlessness (2) - +1D Command, Con, Bargain, Seduction in specific situations
Inspirational Leader (4) - +1D to command, all people in the character's command have +1 to actions while fulfilling orders
Internal Clock (2) - Can determine the time within a 5-10 minute error on an Easy PER roll
Internal Compass (2) - Can determine the direction within a 5% error on an Easy PER roll
Light Sleeper (2) - Roll Combat Surprise while sleeping
Musical Ability (1) - +1D musical skills
Immunity: Cold (2) - +1D STR, Stamina to Cold
Immunity: Electricity (2) - +1D STR, Stamina to Electricity
Immunity: Radiation (2) - +1D STR, Stamina to Radiation
Subculture & Jargon (1) - +1D streetwise, cultures, bureaucracy in chosen area of expertise
Multilingual Background (2) - +1D alien species, cultures, languages
Pain Resistance (3) - When wounded or wounded twice, on a Moderate stamina roll the character does not fall prone, incapacitated stamina roll is Easy
Photographic Memory (3) - +7 on recall rolls
Quick Draw (2) - May draw and use a single hand held weapon in one action phase. No multiple action penalty is incurred
Resilient (2) - It only takes half the amount of rest for the character to heal naturally
Silent Running (3) - The character may sneak even while running on high speed
Scoundrel Shoot (2) - Character may shoot twice in one action (both shoots have -1D penalty)
Springy (3) - The character has a +1D bonus when jumping, or full dodging
Veteran Under Fire (2) - Suppression fire doesn't work against the character with this ability
6th Sense MA (1, 2, 3) - +1/Point PER, Search/Conceal, Stealth, Surprise
Natural Lie Detector MA (1, 2, 3) - +1/Point Bargain, Con, Gambling, Persuasion
Attractive Appearance MA (1, 2, 3) - +1/Point Bargain, Con, Command, Seduction
Presence MA (1, 2, 3) - +1/Point Bargain, Command, Con, Bureaucracy, Seduction
Computer Aptitude SB (1, 2, 3) - +1/Point Comp/Droid Prog. & Repair, Security

Disadvantages:
Albino (1)
Bad Liar (2) - -1D Bargain, Command, Con, Gambling
Clumsiness (1, 2, 3) - -1/Point DEX skills
Color Blind (1,2) - 1: partial, 2: total (-1D search)
Cowardice (3) - -1D Bargain, Command, Con, Seduction
Curiosity (2)
Deep Sleeper (2)
Dependant (1, 2, 3)
Easily Intoxicated (1) - -1D to stamina when exposed to toxic chemicals (e.g. alcohol)
Gambling (2)
Greed (3)
Hatred of Authority (2)
Hearing Impairment (1, 2, 3)
ID Trouble (2) - PC has NO identification of any kind
Illiterate (2) - -1D to most of KNO skills
Imperial Record (1) - Wanted (but not specifically hunted) for a minor offense
Lecherous (2)
Lost Dependents (2)
Mood Swings (2)
Moral Qualms (2) - Code against killing, that sort of thing
Night Blindness (2) - -1D vision based skills at night
Nightmares (1, 2) - 1: occasional, 2: often
Overweight (1, 2, 3) - -1/Point move, stamina, running
Religion (2) - Demanding religion
Sexual Fetish (2)
Sociopathy (1, 2, 3)
Susceptibility to Disease (2) - -1D to stamina to resist diseases
Traumatic Flashbacks (1, 2, 3)
Unattractive Appearance (2) - -1D Bargain, Command, Con, Seduction
Unmistakable Feature (1) - Tattoos, scars etc.
Vision Impairment (1, 2, 4) - 1: requires corrective lenses; 2: partial or one eye, -1D ranged weapons, search; 4: total blindness, no vision skills

I can also provide a list+description of all official A/D/SA + Limitations and more, but it will require more work from me (it's over 20 pages in book) and I'll do it only if somebody really wants it Smile
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

masque wrote:
cheshire wrote:

Why would it be so unfair to give them an ooc reward for playing a flaw? I mean, they still have to pay the penalties within the game. Their character doesn't understand the compulsion, even if the player does.

Because the reward has already been given. If you take advantages, you have to spend points to buy them. If you take disadvantages, you get extra points to spend. It wouldn't make sense to give a character bonus points for taking a disadvantage, and then MORE points for playing out that disadvantage.
I do like the idea of penalizing points for not playing the disadvantage, although in my group, it's not really necessary. If we're playing a game that uses disadvantages, people are pretty good about staying true to them.


Agreed. With the merits and flaws system of white wolf, you have a pool of 15 cp (well call them) that you can use to inc your starting stats.. You can use them to buy up merits, and you can take 7 pts worth of flaws to inc that pool.,. Many gms i know make it where for every point of flaw you take you HAVE to offset it with a merit (eg no padding your pool)..
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