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My Cardinal Rule of Roleplay: What is yours?
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Ankhanu
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gry Sarth wrote:
garhkal wrote:
If you are going for a story though, why even use dice? Heck, why even have character sheets... Just sit by a fireplace and tell a story.


Don't take it so radically. I meant that once in a blue moon it's alright to fudge it a little if it's going to enhance the player's enjoyment of the game. It certainly should be very rare and very subtle, otherwise the players would sure feel cheated and there wouldn't be much point in playing a game like that.

But on that note, it is still lots of fun to play RPG with no dice rolling whatsoever. We had a couple of very memorable games where we would just talk it out, and the story was great, the roleplaying was great and we all had a lot of fun. As stated above, anything goes, as long as it's fun.


Yup, see in colour, not black or white, or even with greys... there's a world of opportunity to work with, both letting the dice land where they may and in fudging things a little to work a good story.

And I've played a few games myself in which no dice were rolled; and honestly, they've been some of the most rewarding sessions as a player that I've played... but not all situations can be worked without the dice.
Also, no dice does NOT indicate that the players have no control over the story.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gry Sarth wrote:
garhkal wrote:
If you are going for a story though, why even use dice? Heck, why even have character sheets... Just sit by a fireplace and tell a story.


Don't take it so radically. I meant that once in a blue moon it's alright to fudge it a little if it's going to enhance the player's enjoyment of the game. It certainly should be very rare and very subtle, otherwise the players would sure feel cheated and there wouldn't be much point in playing a game like that.

But on that note, it is still lots of fun to play RPG with no dice rolling whatsoever. We had a couple of very memorable games where we would just talk it out, and the story was great, the roleplaying was great and we all had a lot of fun. As stated above, anything goes, as long as it's fun.


Ahh... Too often when i see people talk about fudging it is an all the time thing when they are in trouble...
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gry Sarth wrote:
But on that note, it is still lots of fun to play RPG with no dice rolling whatsoever. We had a couple of very memorable games where we would just talk it out, and the story was great, the roleplaying was great and we all had a lot of fun. As stated above, anything goes, as long as it's fun.


Those are some of the best kinds of games. I love sessions like that. I fully permit characters to forego interaction skill rolls if they role play it well. I encourage it.

Quote:
Ahh... Too often when i see people talk about fudging it is an all the time thing when they are in trouble...


Oh god, hell no. It's cool to let one slip past from time to time for the sake keeping things interesting, but when it becomes the norm the game loses all it's appeal.
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scott2978
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok Due to popular demand:

Scott2978's Role playing Etiquette 101!

Role Playing Etiquette 101

Etiquette for the Gamer
1. It is permissible to debate a GM call, but the GM’s word is final.
2. Upon the last person’s arrival, the game should start soon. Don’t waste too much time “catching up”.
3. During the game, your attention should be on the game.
4. Do not invite spectators without the prior consent of the group.
5. If you interrupt the game with an anecdote, don’t over do it. For most people gaming time is limited.
6. While character conflict can enhance the game, your character concept should be acceptable to the group.
7. Never game with someone you dislike talking to.
8. If you don’t like a GM’s call, offer your opinion but don’t argue.
9. One person with a bad attitude can ruin the game for everyone! If you’re pissed off, take a break!
10. It’s rude to touch another person’s dice or character sheet without permission.
11. Be on the lookout for ways your character can make the story more interesting.
12. Try to turn bad die rolls into something interesting, funny, or tragic.
13. You are responsible for a fair share of how much fun the game is. No more, no less.
14. Whenever things are too quiet, describe what your character is doing.
15. Use metagame knowledge when it will make the game more fun, but…
16. Never use metagame knowledge for the benefit of your own character.
17. Your reputation with other gamers depends on 2 things: showing up, and contributing.
18. If you don’t like going to a game, don’t go. The other players will understand.
19. Don’t expect someone else to feed you at the game unless they have said they will.
20. If you can’t make up your mind what your character would do, just do something and justify it later.
21. Asking questions actually makes you more popular at a gaming table. Seriously, try it!

Etiquette for the Game Master (Note that all Gamer etiquette also applies to GMs)
22. A GM is expected to know the rules of the system he’s running. Fudging it too often is not OK.
23. As a GM you’re expected to follow the rules, but realize the rules are secondary to a fun and fair game.
24. Consider the players opinions carefully. Accept that your rulings can be challenged.
25. If a ruling is challenged, weigh the opinions and make a decision quickly. Debate it later.
26. The GM’s decision is FINAL!
27. Major rules may only change with the consent of the group.
28. Don’t play favorites, especially if you GM a group your spouse/girlfriend/boyfriend is in.
29. Don’t take out your frustrations on the players. Outside the game they are still your friends.
30. Make time for snack/food/smoke breaks.
31. The GM should always let the dice fall where they may, but always behind a screen.
32. The GM should never let the dice ruin a good idea.
33. Always give characters a chance to survive a hopeless situation (but be prepared to let them die).
34. You are not the players’ adversary!
35. Always let the characters attempt something that sounds reasonable, regardless of the rules.
36. Know each of the characters strengths and provide some opportunity to use them in each adventure.
37. Never miss a good opportunity to turn a random NPC into a recurring character.
38. No matter what, be consistent.
39. Never expect the players to find the clue, no matter how obvious you think it is.
40. Tell the Rules Lawyer to re-read chapter 1. Specifically that part that says “These rules are just a guideline…”
41. Be aware of the character’s weaknesses and ensure they come into play when appropriate.
42. When great role playing conflicts with the story, screw the story.
43. Role playing NPCs and giving vivid descriptions is only half of the job.
44. Think before every ruling how you would feel about it if you were a player and not the GM.
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Doomhead
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has they say on FOX new, Your Guide-lines seem FAIR & BALANCED. The overall goal of a RPG and gaming is to get together with friends and have a good time.
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TheDoctor
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scott2978 wrote:
Ok Due to popular demand:

Scott2978's Role playing Etiquette 101!


Etiquette for the Game Master (Note that all Gamer etiquette also applies to GMs)
....
39. Never expect the players to find the clue, no matter how obvious you think it is......


Spent a lot of money on Aspirin on that one...
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suud43
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And you're certainly not the only one who did....
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Orgaloth
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And you would think that in a LARP of 50 people that at least one of them would find you clues or hints, but nooo. Rolling Eyes

Players can be dumb.
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Gry Sarth
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orgaloth wrote:
And you would think that in a LARP of 50 people that at least one of them would find you clues or hints, but nooo. Rolling Eyes

Players can be dumb.


Yeah, one of my hard-earned conclusions is that mystery and crime-solving don't go wellwith RPG. You can build an adventure arond these premises, but have to practically hand the evidence to the players, otherwise the game will simply grind to a halt. And I say this both as a GM and as a player. One of my GMs really frustrated me when he genuinely expected us to figure out by ourselves what the hell was going on...
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Doomhead
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kinda like these guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-H_HFDfA4Q
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Ankhanu
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gry Sarth wrote:
Orgaloth wrote:
And you would think that in a LARP of 50 people that at least one of them would find you clues or hints, but nooo. Rolling Eyes

Players can be dumb.


Yeah, one of my hard-earned conclusions is that mystery and crime-solving don't go wellwith RPG. You can build an adventure arond these premises, but have to practically hand the evidence to the players, otherwise the game will simply grind to a halt. And I say this both as a GM and as a player. One of my GMs really frustrated me when he genuinely expected us to figure out by ourselves what the hell was going on...


Same here, also from both sides of the game.
Players aren't quick enough to pick up on hints
GMs aren't clever enough to actually make good hints.

It's a lose lose situation for the most part. (Generality, some exceptions may apply)
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PsiberDragon
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doomhead wrote:
Kinda like these guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-H_HFDfA4Q


dude...

that is just wrong.

but funny. Very Happy

Sadly, I think we've all known someone like that, though (even if it was ourselves, once or twice)...

But as far as cardinal rules: Have fun. Be flexible. Do what feels right, even if it's not quite along the storyline. Dice don't rule everything. Don't consider them "rules", so much as "guidelines". Be flexible. Have fun.
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Doomhead
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can't laugh at your own kind who can you laugh at!

My main rule is have fun... thats what its all about anyways, isn't it?
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scott2978
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gry Sarth wrote:
Orgaloth wrote:
And you would think that in a LARP of 50 people that at least one of them would find you clues or hints, but nooo. :roll:

Players can be dumb.


Yeah, one of my hard-earned conclusions is that mystery and crime-solving don't go wellwith RPG. You can build an adventure arond these premises, but have to practically hand the evidence to the players, otherwise the game will simply grind to a halt. And I say this both as a GM and as a player. One of my GMs really frustrated me when he genuinely expected us to figure out by ourselves what the hell was going on...


Gry,

I'm running a mystery game currently. The group is traveling aboard a luxury liner. Got any tips for running an engaging mystery story?
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Gry Sarth
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scott2978 wrote:
Gry,
I'm running a mystery game currently. The group is traveling aboard a luxury liner. Got any tips for running an engaging mystery story?


Don't.

Well, to be fairer, it's ok to make a mystery game, but my advice is: Don't base the game on the solving of mysteries. You can have the mystery element in it, but try not to structure the game in a way that if the players don't figure out what's going on the game grinds to a halt. It's tough being a player in a crime-solving game. As a GM, don't be afraid of leading your players in a rather blunt way towards each step of the mystery-solving. The players don't have to necessarily solve the case, they can simply be the ones that get to the end of the "clue hunting" first. Example: Somone hints that the Barabel might know something. The players have to go to the barabel and force him into spilling the beans, that leads them to an abandoned room, there they have to find some piece of evidence which explicitly leads them to some club, there they are confronted by someone who furthers the plot. Got it? It's sort of railroading, but it's the only way I know to keep a mystery adventure going.

Bottom line is, you should always show the players a couple directions they can go. Don't just drop them in the middle of the town square and ask: "So.... what are you going to do?"
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