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ZzaphodD
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 Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:27 pm Post subject: Control dissipate blasterfire... |
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I have been reading about control/dissipate energy power and Im not really satisfied with the 'all or nothing' approach. Also, my players jedis seem to die like flies, even after they have left the beginning stage. Sooner or later they will get hit, and they are usually rather weak and unarmoured.
It seems logical (or fits my view of things which perhaps is more important in a sci-fi game including mystical powers) that even if you cant resist all the energy, you should get some kind of protection. This way even jedi who are not über-powerful can have some use of the power. To resist a blaster pistor shot the jedi must on average roll about 28, which means that its restricted for jedis with about 9-10D in Control (if they want to make it in combat).
Also, given the fact that jedi normally dont run around in bounty hunter armour some protection bonus wouldt overthrow game balance. Especially if you want anything but large buffoons (STR 3D and over) as jedis.
My first idea was to have the power grant a bonus to STR to resist damage equal to the numer of Control dice he rolled when activating the power. So, if the jedi rolled 5D for activating the power (His Control skill minus any multi action penalties) he would gain a +5 bonus to resist energy. Of course, the jedi must at least manage to beat a moderate difficulty to get the power up to even affect blaster damage.
My second idea was for the power to grant a +1D in resisting energy damage as long as the jedis activation roll equalled at least half the required target number (minimum moderate). This would mean that most of the times the jedi would get +1D to resist the damage.
To 'balance' this advantage I thought to make it harder to resist several shots during one round (if shot at more than one time after power is activated). Its the total amount of energy resisted during a given time that sets the difficulty. Each subsequent shot raises the target number by +1d6.
What do you think? |
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cheshire
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| Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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I'm curious how your Jedi keep managing to bite it. Just knowing the way that my games run, folks keep some CPs on hand to help the resistance when shot with a blaster. If A/DE wasn't all or nothing, it just seems to me that energy damage would be just too easy to brush off damage.
Of course, this is just how my games would operate in my game. If your folks drop like flies it might be one option. There are some other options available to you, though.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | I'm curious how your Jedi keep managing to bite it. Just knowing the way that my games run, folks keep some CPs on hand to help the resistance when shot with a blaster. If A/DE wasn't all or nothing, it just seems to me that energy damage would be just too easy to brush off damage.
Of course, this is just how my games would operate in my game. If your folks drop like flies it might be one option. There are some other options available to you, though. |
Well, to start with Im not a big fan of using CPs for anything than increasing skills. We by the RAW when we started SW again after several years (played 1st ed before) but the result was that players ended up with no CPs to develop their characters. So, by players request we removed the option.
What Im basically after is a way to give the Jedis some protection but not having to load up in Bounty Hunter armour which does not seem right. Especially I want to increase the survivability of low STR jedi, which I want to encourage in my campaign. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Control dissipate blasterfire... |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | I have been reading about control/dissipate energy power and Im not really satisfied with the 'all or nothing' approach. Also, my players jedis seem to die like flies, even after they have left the beginning stage. Sooner or later they will get hit, and they are usually rather weak and unarmoured. |
To me the reason it is an all or nothing is that they are sucking it in. Therefore if their AB.DIS fails, they suffer full damage. Now depending on who you gm under, some (inc me) feel that you should also suffer the FULL effect of the damage (eg, a 5d blaster rifle does 30 damage to you).
| Quote: |
My first idea was to have the power grant a bonus to STR to resist damage equal to the numer of Control dice he rolled when activating the power. So, if the jedi rolled 5D for activating the power (His Control skill minus any multi action penalties) he would gain a +5 bonus to resist energy. Of course, the jedi must at least manage to beat a moderate difficulty to get the power up to even affect blaster damage. |
Why not have it for your games (as to me it is good as is) where they activate it, and if they fail WHAT IS LEFT from the damage (eg what they don't absorb) is then checked against their normal soak.
| Quote: | What Im basically after is a way to give the Jedis some protection but not having to load up in Bounty Hunter armour which does not seem right. Especially I want to increase the survivability of low STR jedi, which I want to encourage in my campaign.
Then they should be increasing their dodge, so they DON'T get shot.
IMO there are only a few ways to take out powerful jedi out, one is to overwhelm them and hit the where they are weak (their low str). Giving them more ways to survive, is making them yet again more potent. |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:12 am Post subject: |
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Just so theres no mistunderstanding, in my games players more or less never end up becoming 'powerful jedis'. This is not only because they tend to croac (at least the ones that are not extremely combat oriented), but also because as I play rebellion era theres (hardly) no teachers availible. This means paying double for force skills which tend to 'eat up' CPs.
Sure, increase Dodge, but then we go towards the combat orientation again. Defending with Sense against blasterfire has also never really made the day either. It works against one to three stormtroopers, but those are not the problem.
The Jedis, at least once they are out of the closet, are going to be targeted by Bounty Hunters and the like due to their reputation. What experienced Bounty Hunter would not shoot the 'soft' jedi first?
From you suggestion above I understand that If I need a 30 to successfully dissipate a blaster shot and rolled a 15, then a hit with damage 15 would hit and be resisted by STR as usual.
BTW, I read in a compilation of force powers that Minor Force Field (+1d STR to resist damage) gave you a DSP, and in another compilation (both fan made) that it didnt. How is it? If not its an alternative, allthough less SW:ish than C/D Energy. |
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cheshire
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:07 am Post subject: |
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Why not tone down the bounty hunters so that they're a challenge for people with a lesser probability of death?
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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I think that it should be difficult to absorb blaster fire with this power. We only really see Darth Vader doing it and he's got the dicepools to pull it off.
Why not have bounty hunters use the stun setting instead after all a live Jedi is probably worth more than a dead one and a rescue/escape mission is a great adventure.
Otherwise I would suggest that all characters need a decent dodge dicepool. At low levels the Force is more of a last resort/bonus for jedi, they can't neglect their other skills and let their force powers do everything.
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Ankhanu
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Out of curiosity, how do you deal with non-force sensitive, non-combat oriented characters? They're not likely to wear armour, aren't likely to have high Dodge skills, and don't have Force powers to help mitigate damage...
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:23 am Post subject: |
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For most of the games i have played, it is the non combative ones who seem to wear the most armor.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | Why not tone down the bounty hunters so that they're a challenge for people with a lesser probability of death? |
But they also has to pass for believable. Sure, once in a while a 'rookie' hunter turns up trying to make the big score but ends up the creek with no paddle... But in general, one has to assume that if youre going after a group like this you should be a veteran hunter. I mean, we have one (known) jedi with obvious combat skills. A second jedi (which honestly will be underestimated even though shes more powerful in the force) even if not combat oriented. A known 'veteran' mercenary/pirate/(retired) hitman. And lastly a Techie (who is no pushover either) that keep tinkering with the ship, droids and all kind of equipment to improve them.
Theres no point in having former farmhand Dj´onn Douw showing up with a heavy blaster and a blast vest... |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Ankhanu wrote: | | Out of curiosity, how do you deal with non-force sensitive, non-combat oriented characters? They're not likely to wear armour, aren't likely to have high Dodge skills, and don't have Force powers to help mitigate damage... |
Ok, the jedi is still somewhat of a warrior (ie, she has the Lightsaber skill at quite a good level for a beginner character), but not in the neighborhood of the other combat oriented characters. This, in combination with wearing no armour (is there a rule, or just tradition?) means that sooner or later a blaster shot will get through, and thats the end of it. Even if direct combat is not neccessary, hanging back and being a coward is one of the paths to the dark side.
The non-combat oriented characters we have had who are not force-sensitive usually have a role that exempts them from combat (armchair historian, kid, etc) or avoids it for other reasons (cowardly, sneaky characters). |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | I think that it should be difficult to absorb blaster fire with this power. We only really see Darth Vader doing it and he's got the dicepools to pull it off.
Why not have bounty hunters use the stun setting instead after all a live Jedi is probably worth more than a dead one and a rescue/escape mission is a great adventure.
Otherwise I would suggest that all characters need a decent dodge dicepool. At low levels the Force is more of a last resort/bonus for jedi, they can't neglect their other skills and let their force powers do everything. |
No one is talking about making blaster fire easier to absorb, but to tweak the power so that it gives a partial protection even if you dont totally absorb it. The more I think about it, I think that a bonus to damage resistance (ie works as 'armour') is a good way to have this power work, not only for blaster fire.
But if the hunter knows anything about jedi they will notice that stuns seldom affects jedi...(or they will learn the first time anyway..).
Sure they put a dice into Dodge, but Jedi seldom has an abundance of skill dice to spend, being jedi and all. And using the force as a last resort does not feel 'right' to me. Why not them load up in bounty hunter armour to begin with? |
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cheshire
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Casualties on both sides is pretty realistic for combat too. However, there is a delicate balance that is there to be found. It takes trial and error. Sometimes it even takes a couple of fudged die rolls to find it.
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Ankhanu
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | wearing no armour (is there a rule, or just tradition?) |
Tradition
| ZzaphodD wrote: | sooner or later a blaster shot will get through, and thats the end of it. Even if direct combat is not neccessary, hanging back and being a coward is one of the paths to the dark side.
The non-combat oriented characters we have had who are not force-sensitive usually have a role that exempts them from combat (armchair historian, kid, etc) or avoids it for other reasons (cowardly, sneaky characters). |
Well, that's combat in WEG Star Wars. To quote the rule book, rather early on in the combat section, "Combat is dangerous"... the WEG writers take some pains to bring that idea across; the combat system in Star Wars is meant to be dirty and getting shot will likely result in grievous injury or death... and a stray hold-out blaster shot could kill even the most experienced characters (unlike, say, D20 HP systems).
Part of being in combat is working the situation to your advantage; while being a good shot, nimble and well armoured is the obvious, easy route to combat, it's not necessarily the smartest. It sounds to me like you and your players need to approach combat differently; there are all kinds of ways to manipulate the situation to the players' benefit. Using elements of the environment for cover, as obstacles or even weapons against your attackers for example... knowing when to GTFO is perhaps the biggest way to approach combat smartly. You mention being cowardly being a path to the Dark Side... while this is true, there's more to it than avoiding combat... sometimes it's better to be smart, appear as a coward and not fall to the Dead Side of the Force than to, well... die  A perfect film example of playing combat smart is R2-D2. R2 was involved in MANY battles, had no Str to resist attacks and a poor ability to defend himself, but always found a way to be part of the battle, using the environment to his advantage.
Same comments go for your bounty hunters and the like. You don't need hunters that are your typical "veteran", armed and armoured to the teeth with combat skills out the wahzoo... Look at your ultimate hunter, Fett; yeah, he's got some great gear and skills, but what makes him the hunter he is is his mind, not the toys and shot. He's tactical, analytical, uses everything around him to his advantage, perfectly capable of taking a bounty without ever firing a shot. And that's another point... you don't need to make your players have death bounties... really, most bounties are for live capture; people who place bounties are likely to want their target to suffer... and want to have a personal hand in that suffering, if only having the last word to gloat. Use hunters that want to take the players alive and you should minimize death.
As for the topic of changing Absorb/Dissipate, well, I do kind of like the scaling effect idea, though I don't think the difficulty to activate the power against energy at the level of a blaster bolt should be reduced at all... if anything I'd make it harder
I can see using the power with a set difficulty, as it is now, and incorporating a degree of protection based on how much above the difficulty you rolled. I'm just going to use some arbitrary difficulties/degrees in this example/chart to demonstrate -
Difficulty to absorb a blaster bolt, Moderate (let's say 15).
Roll beats difficulty by - Benefit/Protection
0-5 - +1D to resist damage
6-10 - +2D
10-15 - +3D
15-20 - +4D
20-25 - +5D
+5 - +1D
So, let's say our Jedi hero (Str 2D+1, Control 4D) gets shot with a blaster rifle (5D) and tries to Absorb/Dissipate the shot. They roll their Control and gets a rather nice roll, 22. That means they've hit the difficulty (15) and beat it by 7. The Jedi then can absorb some of the blaster's energy, adding +2D to their resistance. The blaster rifle deals 18 damage and the Jedi rolls their augmented resistance, 4D+1 and rolls a 17, leaving a difference of 1; the Jedi is stunned.
Basically, if the Jedi can't meet the minimum level of difficulty (Moderate), they simply are overcome by the sudden influx of energy and can't summon the Force to their aide, but if they manage to center themselves inthe Force enough, despite the intense distraction of sudden physical trauma, they gain some benefit.
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hazardchris
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Since I don't know what era that you're playing in this might not be much help but, since the games that I run are set in the Rebellion Era, most of the Jedi Characters that I'm dealing with do wear some form of armor early in their careers since that there's really no good reason for them not to have armor if it's available to them.
If you MUST look at the prequels, even Obi-Wan wore armor during the high-combat era of The Clone Wars. So I'd advise just letting your Jedi characters have access to some decent armor until their at the point where they can handle a blaster bolt or two in the shebs.
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