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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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 Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:07 pm Post subject: How do you handle Martial Arts.. |
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By the book, martial arts is a specialization of Brawling, meaning that every person with Brawling also knows martial arts (as specializations are just limitations of the scope of the skill). This obviously is totally broken without additional rules, just giving players a cheaper skill.
How do you handle Martial Arts?
My idea is to make it an Advanced Skill, based on Brawling. As such, it will add to Brawling as per normal rules for Advanced skills. Also, the skill dice in Martial Arts can be used to perform special maneuvers. This will be a 'free action' and not result in any additional MAPs.
The list of maneuvers can be found in the Spec Forces book, but includes Sweeps, Jumping Kicks, Disarms, Knockdown, etc. Ill probably add a few more when I come around to that.
For example, Quazi attacks an Imperial soldier with Martial Arts with the intent to sweep him (Easy). He rolls his 'Brawling'+'Martial Arts' dice as usual scoring a hit. He then rolls his Martial Arts skill of 3D, with no MAP penalty, to attempt the sweep getting a 10 which is a success. The soldiers feet is swept away from under him and he crashes to the ground.
Of course, the difficulty numbers in the SF book are based on Martial Arts being a specialization and must be looked over and lowered to accomodate the skill being a Advanced skill. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| I tend to go with the rules from the SpecForces handbook as a base. |
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hazardchris
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Posts: 358
Location: Lexington, KY
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:39 am Post subject: |
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Here's what I use.
| Quote: | (A) Martial Arts
Requires: Brawling 5D
For every 1D that a character invests in (A) Martial Arts, they may pick one of the following techniques described below. Moreover, any time that a character trained in Martial Arts fights hand-to-hand with a character who is not trained in Martial Arts (or similar skill) that character receives a +1D to attack and parry rolls(but not damage).
Click here to see list. |
There are some other advanced Brawling skills that I've seen in other stat blocks, one of Chewie's stats and the Wookiee from the Darkstryder Campaign come to mind.
I based the difficulties on the Lightsaber Combat Forms, but didn't make them quite as high since I feel that hitting someone with a fist should be easier than hitting someone with a laser sword. It should be noted that I've combined the parry skills with their parent abilities for the sake of simplicity, if I were running a more by-the-book game I would only give the bonus to attack.
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Last edited by hazardchris on Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Nico_Davout
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Location: Sevilla, Spain
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:13 am Post subject: |
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I use it as Brawling specialized skill.
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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| hazardchris wrote: | Here's what I use.
| Quote: | (A) Martial Arts
Requires: Brawling 5D
For every 1D that a character invests in (A) Martial Arts, they may pick one of the following techniques described below. Moreover, any time that a character trained in Martial Arts fights hand-to-hand with a character who is not trained in Martial Arts (or similar skill) that character receives a +1D to attack and parry rolls(but not damage).
Click here to see list. |
There are some other advanced Brawling skills that I've seen in other stat blocks, one of Chewie's stats and the Wookiee from the Darkstryder Campaign come to mind.
I based the difficulties on the Lightsaber Combat Forms, but didn't make them quite as high since I feel that hitting someone with a fist should be easier than hitting someone with a laser sword. It should be noted that I've combined the parry skills with their parent abilities for the sake of simplicity, if I were running a more by-the-book game I would only give the bonus to attack. |
This is about the same as what Im looking at, so Im gonna be 'inspired' by this list... 
I guess the difficulty modifiers are on top of the 'very easy' base difficulty to hit? Do the 'Martial Artist' use his (A)Martial Arts skill to hit his opponent, and then add the difficulties from the chart below? |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| Nico_Davout wrote: | | I use it as Brawling specialized skill. |
So basically Martial Arts is just a cheaper form of Brawling? |
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Nico_Davout
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:25 am Post subject: |
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Like in the SpecForce handbook.
Of course each Martial Arts has to be bought separately.
However I think each MA should be just different *normal* skill. Advanced skill should be for something really hard, medicine is hard, engineering is hard (to create new things), but Martial Arts are not that hard to learn IMO.
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Han Solo shot first, midichlosomething do not exist, Rebel Alliance was created as in the WEG books and indoctrination theory is the true ending of ME3. |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| Nico_Davout wrote: | Like in the SpecForce handbook.
Of course each Martial Arts has to be bought separately.
However I think each MA should be just different *normal* skill. Advanced skill should be for something really hard, medicine is hard, engineering is hard (to create new things), but Martial Arts are not that hard to learn IMO. |
I cant agree on that. The time fram it takes to to learn Medicine to a professional degree (ie being a doctor) can definitely be compared to the time it takes to become a competent fighter against many styles of close combat (as compared to just being an experienced bar fighther). Perhaps your first months at Karate was not (A)Martial Arts but instead just Brawling.
As I have allready pointed out, but no one seems to have a problem with, is that with MA as a specialization skill, its just cheaper than Brawling with no drawbacks. Normally a specialization has the limitation that you are only good at a area, but if you dont want to come up with unreasonable liimitations to a all availible martial arts (like, brawling OR striking) that is not the case with MA.
As I see it, either you make MA just a 'GM/Player storyline gimmic' in which case it sorts under the normal Brawling skill or you should make it an Advanced skill. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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Good point ZzaphodD,
In real life it actually takes awhile for martial arts training to start becoming effective. Early training consists of "teaching the basics" which is pretty much what the prerequisite skill does for advanced skills. |
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hazardchris
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Location: Lexington, KY
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | I guess the difficulty modifiers are on top of the 'very easy' base difficulty to hit? Do the 'Martial Artist' use his (A)Martial Arts skill to hit his opponent, and then add the difficulties from the chart below? |
They numbers are what the character defending against the Martial Arts maneuver adds to their parry roll to represent the difficulty in using the technique.
Here's how I handle the rest of it: I let the entire skill stack, treating it as just an evolved form of the Brawling skill, so if a character has Brawling 5D and (A) Martial Arts 2D+1 they would roll 7D+1 when attacking or preforming a maneuver.
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"Oh no, that's just something we used to tell people."
Let me make you a picture! |
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Esoomian
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Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| hazardchris wrote: | | Here's how I handle the rest of it: I let the entire skill stack, treating it as just an evolved form of the Brawling skill, so if a character has Brawling 5D and (A) Martial Arts 2D+1 they would roll 7D+1 when attacking or preforming a maneuver. |
I was thinking of a similar idea however if the player opts to use just his (A) Martial Arts dicepool then they get to do Strangth + (A) Martial Arts in damage.
So if a player has (A) Martial Arts 2D+1 then they can either use Brawling + 2D+1 to hit and do Strength in damage or they can use just 2D+1 for their to hit dicepool and then they get to do strength + 2D+1 for damage.
I have yet to playtest it however but this way the players can make up the names for the manuevers they try on the fly and their damage is determined by how skilled they are.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| hazardchris wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | I guess the difficulty modifiers are on top of the 'very easy' base difficulty to hit? Do the 'Martial Artist' use his (A)Martial Arts skill to hit his opponent, and then add the difficulties from the chart below? |
They numbers are what the character defending against the Martial Arts maneuver adds to their parry roll to represent the difficulty in using the technique.
Here's how I handle the rest of it: I let the entire skill stack, treating it as just an evolved form of the Brawling skill, so if a character has Brawling 5D and (A) Martial Arts 2D+1 they would roll 7D+1 when attacking or preforming a maneuver. |
Ok, differs somewhat from what Im aiming at.
Im using Brawling+Martial Arts total skill dice for attack as per normal rules.
However, doing the 'special maneuvers' is a separate skill check (but not an action in itself) only using the A Martial Arts dice vs a set difficulty (Depending on technique).. So, the techniques does not add to the opponents defence roll, as I want to promote 'flashy play' so to speak.. Also, from my experience, techniques once you have learned them does not increase difficulty unless you are on very equal terms (both style and skill level). |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | hazardchris wrote: | | Here's how I handle the rest of it: I let the entire skill stack, treating it as just an evolved form of the Brawling skill, so if a character has Brawling 5D and (A) Martial Arts 2D+1 they would roll 7D+1 when attacking or preforming a maneuver. |
I was thinking of a similar idea however if the player opts to use just his (A) Martial Arts dicepool then they get to do Strangth + (A) Martial Arts in damage.
So if a player has (A) Martial Arts 2D+1 then they can either use Brawling + 2D+1 to hit and do Strength in damage or they can use just 2D+1 for their to hit dicepool and then they get to do strength + 2D+1 for damage.
I have yet to playtest it however but this way the players can make up the names for the manuevers they try on the fly and their damage is determined by how skilled they are. |
I think adding a 'dice pool' to damage is a bit ott, if you are not really into the 'mystical' aspect of martial arts that was popular in the 80s (Read Remo books...  ). |
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bobenhotep
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Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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if you go the specialization route, a character could specialize in striking or grappling. both are covered in the rules, and you actually hear in real life ppl being "strikers" or "grapplers".
so if a character who specializes in striking is grappled, his specialized skill goes out the window (hmm never seen that)
brawling(s)grappling cant be used to throw punches or kick people.
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | I think adding a 'dice pool' to damage is a bit ott, if you are not really into the 'mystical' aspect of martial arts that was popular in the 80s (Read Remo books... ). |
It may well be OTT I've not had a chance to playtest it. I wanted their to be some advantage to using the advanced skill on it's own and that was a spur of the moment decision.
Then again I've never seen anyone ever get an advanced skill of higher than 2D+2 so if you've only got 2D+2 to hit then the damage buff of 2D+2 isn't all that awesome.
I'll have to test it and see.
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