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Firing from the hip...
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:40 pm    Post subject: Firing from the hip... Reply with quote

Looking at the ranges for repeating blasters its obvious they represent the weapon being used with a bipod.

Given the weight of repeaters one can assume they are not accurately (or normally) used firing braced against the shoulder as a rifle. So, basically they should be used from the hip if the PC dont get in position to use the bipod or some other support. An effective range of 400-500 meters is not that realistic, neither is having a 'close range' up to 50 meters or so.

What Range stats should be used when a weapon (in this case a Repeating Blaster) is fired from the hip?

Looking through the weapon ranges in the rulebook I think using the ranges for Blaster Pistol would be a good balance between Fun and Realism. This would mean 3-10/30/120. Sure, I guess hitting something 'man sized' at around 100 meters firing from the hip would be next to impossible, but here is where 'Fun' comes into play.

So, how do you handle characters firing heavy weapons without getting into position and using the bipod?
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Ankhanu
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't overthink the game.

Star Wars d6 is about simplicity and speed... a single skill/ability to cover most situations. Don't worry about these little details and just play Razz Unless there's a part in the capsule entry of the weapon stating its need for a bipod/tripod, shooting is just shooting. Don't worry about the "realistically" aspect, unless it's ruining your game. If it is, impose a modifier for not using the pod.
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ankhanu wrote:
Don't overthink the game.

Star Wars d6 is about simplicity and speed... a single skill/ability to cover most situations. Don't worry about these little details and just play Razz Unless there's a part in the capsule entry of the weapon stating its need for a bipod/tripod, shooting is just shooting. Don't worry about the "realistically" aspect, unless it's ruining your game. If it is, impose a modifier for not using the pod.


That would be all nice if the weapons had some kind of concistency between them, which they generally dont.

Its not a new ability to the character. Its just a 'secondary' range for one type of weapon - repeating blasters.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd just kick up the difficulty one level if the weapon isn't braced. Note that a character fighting from a doorway could brace it up against the door.

You don't really need to adjust the ranges, due to the higher difficulty.
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
I'd just kick up the difficulty one level if the weapon isn't braced. Note that a character fighting from a doorway could brace it up against the door.

You don't really need to adjust the ranges, due to the higher difficulty.


Yeah, thats a good idea, its basically the same thing as the range thing in effect anyway.

Ill make the difficulty one level higher. In case of shooting at a dodging target Ill add +5 to the target number.

However, if one is using one of them Scampi links (or whatever they are called.. Laughing ) that would lower the difficulty to normal.

Ok, having sorted that out Ill add the rest of my house rules for repeating blasters (or large weapons).
To use a repeating blaster with no penalty (in addition to firing it from the hip) a character has to have a minimum score in Lifting and Stamina.
Light Repeaters 4D
Med. Repeaters 5D
Hvy Repeater 8D*
With only the required numer of D in Lifting one might temporarily pick the weapon up and use it with no penalty, but to continously carry it around and use it you need the required numbers of D in Stamina as well. The penalty for using a weapon without the requirement skills is equal to the difference between your skill level and the required level. For example, if you need 4D and only have 3D, your penalty is -1D.

*Originally this was not possible, but after seeing a picture of a Wookie with and E-web having the generator as a backpack I settled for 8D.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd probably drop the stamina requirment, since that seems to be factored into lifting already.

You might want to add a STR roll to control the "kick" of these weapons if hand carried.
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Esoomian
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes lifting tests have increased difficulty for holding an object aloft for increased periods of time.

This page here details them

But I'll post a badly formatted version here for ease of use:
Weight Difficuty Level
10 kg Very Easy
50 kg Easy
100 kg Moderate
200 kg Difficult
500 kg Very Difficult
750 kg Heroic
1 metric ton Heroic +10
1.5 metric tons Heroic +20
2 metric tons Heroic +30
2.5 metric tons Heroic +40
3 metric tons Heroic +50

Time Difficulty Level Increase
1 - 6 rounds (up to 30 seconds) No increase
7 round - 3 minutes +1 difficulty level
Up to 10 minutes +2 difficulty levels
Up to 30 minutes +3 difficulty levels
Up to 1 hour +4 difficulty levels

So given that a roll of 7 for two dice is average 8D in lifting should result in an average of 28 or enough to lift 200kgs for up to three minutes.

That does seem sufficient for even an e-Web
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok then. Either very high lifting or meet both the Lifting / Stamina requirements. Carrying a LRB for 1 hour would require Lifting 8D!

And regarding the E-web, sure you can lift it from its tripod an shoot it for a few minutes, but then you have to put it down again. I want a requirement where you can use it as a 'normal' weapon.

That table doesnt really make sense. Lifting a 10kg object for one hour would only be possible for chewbacca and similar creatures. Even lifting it for 10 minutes would need a Lifting of 'professional level' which would mean a sturdy construction worker or something similar.
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Esoomian
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZzaphodD wrote:
Ok then. Either very high lifting or meet both the Lifting / Stamina requirements. Carrying a LRB for 1 hour would require Lifting 8D!

And regarding the E-web, sure you can lift it from its tripod an shoot it for a few minutes, but then you have to put it down again. I want a requirement where you can use it as a 'normal' weapon.


If you're using an E-web for more than a few minutes at a time (given that a round is six seconds or so so there are ten rounds in a minute) then you've got bigger problems than your aching arms! Most weapons are probably only used for a few rounds at a time and are then holstered. I'd assume the E-Web sould have some sort of backpack style holster.

ZzaphodD wrote:
That table doesnt really make sense. Lifting a 10kg object for one hour would only be possible for chewbacca and similar creatures. Even lifting it for 10 minutes would need a Lifting of 'professional level' which would mean a sturdy construction worker or something similar.


Have you tried lifting 10kgs for an hour?

We're not talking carrying it on your back or anything like that but carrying it above your head or at full extention.

I've seen a strongman competition where one of the tasks was to hold a car battery (about 14.5 kgs) at full extention in frount of your chest. None of the contestants (and some of them were huge!) could do it for more that 4-5 minutes.

Going by the table that would have only been a difficult task, and probably at the lower end of difficult too as the battery is much less than 50kgs and 5 minutes is much half of 10 minutes.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I think Esoomian has got the right idea here.

Even guys who carry around LMGs in the real world don't "lift" it all the time. It is usually carted around on a shoulder strap and fired with the bipod out (and the bipod is taking up some or all of the weight).

A should strap would probably be the ticket for handling a LGM. It restistubutes the weight from the arms to the shoulders, so the character only needed to support the weapon for a few seconds at a time. And the strap can be used to help brace the weapon.

The "John Wayne" style heroics aren't done for very long.

As far as wanting to use it as a normal weapon, qive you really shouldn't be able to. No one can run around firing a .50 cal in battle. In fact, it takes a crew to carry,s et up and operate the MG.

Now in Star Wars, maybe a Wookiee can port around an E-Web, but no human should really be able to do it. Yes, this is a "heroic" game, so maybe the GM might allow a character with a high STR/lifting to do it, but it not really possible.
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah, looking at the size and shape of the E-web its clear theres no holster. I guess you have to have the generator in a backpack setup and just a sling for the e-web. And you probably have to be a wookie..

Yes, I have lifted about 10 kg for around an hour, even if it was slighly less for a bit shorter period of time Im not Chewbacca. I definitely carried it for more than 10 minutes and Im no burly construction worker either.

And no where is 'lifting above the head at full extension' mentioned.

It simply says the skill is for lifting objects and carrying it for long periods of time. 'Carry' seldom means walking around with stuff at full extension above your head, especially when 'long periods of time' is mentioned, but simply carrying it in the most effective way possible. With no backpack or similar aid availible this usually means just holding it close to the body.
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Esoomian
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZzaphodD wrote:
Nah, looking at the size and shape of the E-web its clear theres no holster. I guess you have to have the generator in a backpack setup and just a sling for the e-web. And you probably have to be a wookie..


No there is no hoster for a standard E-Web but an E-web would have to be significantly modified to be carried around and used by a single individual. In my mind it would look similar a water gun popular in the 80s It had a backpack style tank of water and a pump action body that was fed via a tube connecting the body to the tank. When not in use the body of the gun clipped onto the backpack. I wish I could remember what those things were called.

ZzaphodD wrote:
Yes, I have lifted about 10 kg for around an hour, even if it was slighly less for a bit shorter period of time Im not Chewbacca. I definitely carried it for more than 10 minutes and Im no burly construction worker either.

And no where is 'lifting above the head at full extension' mentioned.

It simply says the skill is for lifting objects and carrying it for long periods of time. 'Carry' seldom means walking around with stuff at full extension above your head, especially when 'long periods of time' is mentioned, but simply carrying it in the most effective way possible. With no backpack or similar aid availible this usually means just holding it close to the body.


Hmmm this is where we disagree. Due to the difficulty levels of that table I'd say that lifting an object implied raising it over the head, holding it at full extention or other 'heroic' feats like catching a decending blast shield and holding it up for other players to slip through before it closed. For simply picking up and carrying an object I'd lower the difficulty a few levels. I'd consider carry (in this context) to mean moving with a heavy object held over your head or something similar like lifting a small speeder, walking to a wall and tossing it over rather than moving an item of furniture to a more asthetically pleasing location or something similarly mundane.

But fair is fair it's just my point of view not rules as defined by the book so I may be well off base on this one.
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Esoomian wrote:

No there is no hoster for a standard E-Web but an E-web would have to be significantly modified to be carried around and used by a single individual. In my mind it would look similar a water gun popular in the 80s It had a backpack style tank of water and a pump action body that was fed via a tube connecting the body to the tank. When not in use the body of the gun clipped onto the backpack. I wish I could remember what those things were called.


Sure you aint talking about one of these? Laughing
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Esoomian
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't but that's a much better example of the style of weapon I was talking about.

Although your players would have to be pretty reckless to want to carry unregistered nuclear devices around on their backs Smile
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Esoomian wrote:

Although your players would have to be pretty reckless to want to carry unregistered nuclear devices around on their backs Smile


Ah, do you know my players?

I once introduced a Plasma Repeater Rifle (From Space Master) in our last campaign. It was powered by a 'experimental' micro fusion reactor with reliability issues (especially when the weapon was used continously on full auto)....Could they keep their fingers away? Nooooo...
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