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Verpines are eating my Jawas
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Quote:
-Downgrade the Verpine. This is what many have done as a general rule because the Verpine racial ability is so powerful. Basically it translated into a higher TEC attribute. If you decide to go this route, let your Verpine PC know before hand, sp he can change characters if he wants. Personally, I'm against downgrading the Verpine just because of the Jawa.. It not fair to have you character weakened because someone else isn't as good.


That is why i said what i did..


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Good. That was why I was trying for--to explain why everyone here said what they said so Cowboy Hat can go over all the options we've presented, the reasons behind those options, and then pick which one suits him.
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Cowboy Hat
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone has been exceedingly helpful thanks.

The only thing I think I need some more information on is the Jury-rigging - as I don't have the crackens field guide. Though I imagine I could...well jury-rig some rules for it.

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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically when you jury rig something you give it bonuses on XYZ//

When you roll an action with that item, you add in a number of wild dice equal to what the jury rigging is, but these dice are ONLY used for their 'wild effects' if they roll a one.

EG. I know my piddly 4d blaster pistol won't be enough to stop those imperials in their nice rad trooper armor, so i jury rig it to do 2D extra of damage. When i roll AND HIT, i then roll 3 regular dice, 1 wild dice and 2 'Jury rig wild dice'. If the wild dice rolls a 1, treat it as normal. BUT if either of the jury rig wild die hits a 1, there is a chart you have to look at to see what happens. IT IS always a complication.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Basically when you jury rig something you give it bonuses on XYZ//

When you roll an action with that item, you add in a number of wild dice equal to what the jury rigging is, but these dice are ONLY used for their 'wild effects' if they roll a one.

EG. I know my piddly 4d blaster pistol won't be enough to stop those imperials in their nice rad trooper armor, so i jury rig it to do 2D extra of damage. When i roll AND HIT, i then roll 3 regular dice, 1 wild dice and 2 'Jury rig wild dice'. If the wild dice rolls a 1, treat it as normal. BUT if either of the jury rig wild die hits a 1, there is a chart you have to look at to see what happens. IT IS always a complication.


Ouch, that seems a little excessive in some regards considering the odds. I take it that you Hit anyway but then...you know you're get an electric shock, jam, the blaster falls apart - rather than you roll a one and the blaster jumps out of your hand, falls down the exhaust pipe, accidently goes off and causes a chain reaction that blows up the death start that you're on.
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Gry Sarth
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depending on the kind of jury-rig, you'll be rolling on either the Lethal, Non-Lethal or Vehicles table. In all of them you have around 50% chance of nothing bad at all happening. There's a 1 in 3 chance that the item simply stops working (and half the time you only need to slam it to get it going again). Only on the Lethal table there's a 1 in 6 chance that the item explodes, doing damage equal do the amount of jury-rig dice.

So, all in all, it's not such a harsh mechanic.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gry Sarth wrote:
Depending on the kind of jury-rig, you'll be rolling on either the Lethal, Non-Lethal or Vehicles table. In all of them you have around 50% chance of nothing bad at all happening. There's a 1 in 3 chance that the item simply stops working (and half the time you only need to slam it to get it going again). Only on the Lethal table there's a 1 in 6 chance that the item explodes, doing damage equal do the amount of jury-rig dice.

So, all in all, it's not such a harsh mechanic.


Sorry I'm having "a day". Do you have a page reference in the 2nd Ed R&E for these tables?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crakens Rebel field guide, page 2 an 3.

Jury-Rigging As described on page 29 of The Star Wars Rules Companion, a character may increase the performance ability of his equipment. He can make his blaster more powerful or make his
airspeeder more maneuverable. Improving equipment through skill points reflects the fact that the character is investing himself into the
equipment. It is a long-term and costly process. It is possible, however, to increase the performance of equipment without spending skill
points and credits. Unfortunately, this short cut tends to make the improvement temporary, and dangerous when the equipment fails. The
process is called jury-rigging.

When a character jury-rigs a blaster power pack into a bomb or alters the design of an air speeder's mechanical air flaps, he is making the
machine or item better - but by means that no honest engineer would ever use. Jury-rigging involves connecting wires that shouldn't be connected, taking out important safety features of a vehicle, or putting together two kinds of electronics that don't really belong together.

Juryrigged equipment provides a short term benefit, but it is predisposed to breakdown. Jury-rigging something takes one hour, or the
character can rush, jury-rigging the item in one minute, although the task becomes one difficulty harder. Very difficult tasks can be attempted in one minute. There is no way to spend more time on jury-rigging to make the task easier.

If the roll to jury-rig something is failed, it can be tried again, but the second try always takes an hour (even if the initial attempt was only one minute). The Role of Jury-Rigging Jury-rigging equipment often requires strange bits of wire and odds and ends. The gamemaster must decide if the equipment to jury-rig something is on hand if the Rebels did not specify that they brought the equipment with them. The game master should keep in mind that it is in the spirit of the jury-rigging rules that the
Rebels slap stuff together when they want to.

This is why the break down rules exist: to balance out the bonus the players get. A lack of materials for juryrigging should be the exception, not the rule. Improving Existing Abilities The most common way to jury-rig an item is to improve one of its existing die codes. For example,
a blaster can be rigged for better damage or an airspeeder can be rigged for more speed. This kind of improvement only enhances a tool's
die code (for example, a blaster can only improve the damage code this way, while a capital ship turbolaser could have fire control or damage increased).
An item can be made better by 1D, 2D, or 3D. Thus, a sporting blaster's damage can be improved from 3D+1 to 4D+1, 5D+1, or 6D+1.
The maneuverability of an Aratech 74-Z Military Speeder Bike can be improved from 3D+2 to 4D+2, 5D+2, or 6D+2. Jury-rigging requires a successful technology roll. The difficulty is determined by the degree
of improvement. Adding New Abilities Specialized devices can be made from spare parts or an existing item can be modified to have an ability it never had before (for example, juryrigging a blaster so that the user gets bonus dice to hit a target). Changes of this nature are described on a case-by-case basis in this book, with the difficulty listed in the description.

Equipment Failure
Jury-rigged equipment has a chance of failure. The more a piece of equipment is pushed past its original design specifications, the greater the
chance of failure. When someone is using a juryrigged piece of equipment, he should roll the extra dice gained from the jury-rigging after the dice he would normally roll (alternately, use different colored dice for the normal roll and the jury-rigged dice). For example, a blaster with a base damage of 4D and a jury-rigged additional damage of 1D
would roll the four dice and then the bonus one die separately.
If any of the bonus dice come up as a one (1), the jury-rigged device has been pushed beyond its limitations and may break down. Roll on the
Jury-Rig Breakdown Table. The bonus dice must always be rolled when
the jury-rigged device is used. Therefore, there is always a risk of failure. Bonus dice are never lost as a result of multiple actions in the same round.

Lethal. Roll 1. Item explodes for full damage
Roll 2, item stops working and cannot be repaired
Roll 3, the item stops working, but merely slamming it against something will get it working again.
Roll 4-6, nothing happens.
Non lethal.
Roll 1, same as lethal 2
Roll 2, Same as lethal 3
Roll 3-6, item works ok.
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Cowboy Hat
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Crakens Rebel field guide, page 2 an 3.

Jury-Rigging As described on page 29 of The Star Wars Rules Companion, a character may increase the performance ability of his equipment. He can make his blaster more powerful or make his
airspeeder more maneuverable. Improving equipment through skill points reflects the fact that the character is investing himself into the
equipment. It is a long-term and costly process. It is possible, however, to increase the performance of equipment without spending skill
points and credits. Unfortunately, this short cut tends to make the improvement temporary, and dangerous when the equipment fails. The
process is called jury-rigging.

When a character jury-rigs a blaster power pack into a bomb or alters the design of an air speeder's mechanical air flaps, he is making the
machine or item better - but by means that no honest engineer would ever use. Jury-rigging involves connecting wires that shouldn't be connected, taking out important safety features of a vehicle, or putting together two kinds of electronics that don't really belong together.

Juryrigged equipment provides a short term benefit, but it is predisposed to breakdown. Jury-rigging something takes one hour, or the
character can rush, jury-rigging the item in one minute, although the task becomes one difficulty harder. Very difficult tasks can be attempted in one minute. There is no way to spend more time on jury-rigging to make the task easier.

If the roll to jury-rig something is failed, it can be tried again, but the second try always takes an hour (even if the initial attempt was only one minute). The Role of Jury-Rigging Jury-rigging equipment often requires strange bits of wire and odds and ends. The gamemaster must decide if the equipment to jury-rig something is on hand if the Rebels did not specify that they brought the equipment with them. The game master should keep in mind that it is in the spirit of the jury-rigging rules that the
Rebels slap stuff together when they want to.

This is why the break down rules exist: to balance out the bonus the players get. A lack of materials for juryrigging should be the exception, not the rule. Improving Existing Abilities The most common way to jury-rig an item is to improve one of its existing die codes. For example,
a blaster can be rigged for better damage or an airspeeder can be rigged for more speed. This kind of improvement only enhances a tool's
die code (for example, a blaster can only improve the damage code this way, while a capital ship turbolaser could have fire control or damage increased).
An item can be made better by 1D, 2D, or 3D. Thus, a sporting blaster's damage can be improved from 3D+1 to 4D+1, 5D+1, or 6D+1.
The maneuverability of an Aratech 74-Z Military Speeder Bike can be improved from 3D+2 to 4D+2, 5D+2, or 6D+2. Jury-rigging requires a successful technology roll. The difficulty is determined by the degree
of improvement. Adding New Abilities Specialized devices can be made from spare parts or an existing item can be modified to have an ability it never had before (for example, juryrigging a blaster so that the user gets bonus dice to hit a target). Changes of this nature are described on a case-by-case basis in this book, with the difficulty listed in the description.

Equipment Failure
Jury-rigged equipment has a chance of failure. The more a piece of equipment is pushed past its original design specifications, the greater the
chance of failure. When someone is using a juryrigged piece of equipment, he should roll the extra dice gained from the jury-rigging after the dice he would normally roll (alternately, use different colored dice for the normal roll and the jury-rigged dice). For example, a blaster with a base damage of 4D and a jury-rigged additional damage of 1D
would roll the four dice and then the bonus one die separately.
If any of the bonus dice come up as a one (1), the jury-rigged device has been pushed beyond its limitations and may break down. Roll on the
Jury-Rig Breakdown Table. The bonus dice must always be rolled when
the jury-rigged device is used. Therefore, there is always a risk of failure. Bonus dice are never lost as a result of multiple actions in the same round.

Lethal. Roll 1. Item explodes for full damage
Roll 2, item stops working and cannot be repaired
Roll 3, the item stops working, but merely slamming it against something will get it working again.
Roll 4-6, nothing happens.
Non lethal.
Roll 1, same as lethal 2
Roll 2, Same as lethal 3
Roll 3-6, item works ok.


Thanks, that's exceedingly useful.

My Jawa's going to turn into MacGyver, or to paraphrase a quote from Mallrats:

"Silent Jawa here's an electrical genius. He won the science fair in eighth grade by turning his mom's vibrator into a CD player using some chicken wire and s***. The mother f**ker's like MacGyver. No, the mother f**ker's *better than* MacGyver. "
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not quite sure if I'm missing the obvious here - but Jury-rigging seems to be able to be done by anyone - it doesn't seem a separate skill either. In the context that I have given originally, having a player as a jawa and one as a verpine, would it be fair to give the jawa a bonus to the jury rigging, and what would people suggest as a bonus (a removal of a jury rigging dice?)
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Gry Sarth
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, since these are 1st Edition rules, all jury-rigging is supposed to use the skills technology, which in 2nd Edition translates to any number of Technical skills (blaster repair, armor repair, repulsorlift repair...). I wouldn't mess with the jury-rigging rules themselves in order to give your Jawa a bonus, I'd just give him a Special Ability that says he gets a +1D or +2D bonus to his repair skills when jury-rigging a piece of equipment.

I'd also urge you to get your hands on Cracken's Rebel Field Guide, as the whole jury-rig thing is not just a mechanic that assigns bonuses. The book lists in great detail a number of jury-rigs and what one needs to do in order to accomplish them (for example jury-rigging a negative power coupler from a small starship to a positive flow detonator to create a very unstable bomb that does 8D speeder-scale damage).
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given the Jawa's fondness for slapping stuff together I'd say that if the for every 10 the Jawa beats the difficulty by the Jawa has found a successful (if unsightly) improvement and the device has one less jury rig dice than normal (minimum of one... it can't be perfect)
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cowboy Hat wrote:
I'm not quite sure if I'm missing the obvious here - but Jury-rigging seems to be able to be done by anyone - it doesn't seem a separate skill either. In the context that I have given originally, having a player as a jawa and one as a verpine, would it be fair to give the jawa a bonus to the jury rigging, and what would people suggest as a bonus (a removal of a jury rigging dice?)


Yes, everyone can jury-rig (allthough I houserule that Verpines cant, because its against their understanding of machines to make something work imperfect). If you have an item (a functioning blaster) and the apropriate tools you can jury rig.

Jawa-rigging could perhaps take away the need for a functioning item. Not going into details there, but I think it would fit Jawas to be able to build items from 'junk' by using 'Jawa-rigging'. You need a weapon, well the jawa will build one from some broken blaster pieces, a power coubler, a magnetic focus lens and a hydrospanner. It might not be the sleekest gun in the galaxy, but it will work (if a bit crudely).

BTW: I lowered the Verpines bonus to tech skills to +1D and instead raised the Tech stat maximum by 1D. This way to 'max out' on Tech at least will cost you one more ability dice.
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Jame Rowe
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Esoomian wrote:
I've ruled in the past that the verpine only gets +2D to skills they actually possess so if they haven't put points into it no +2D.


This rule is adopted.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considing how ship modifications work in 2nd edition, I'd just incorporate those for jury rigged stuff. That is, I wouldn't add mishap dice, but simply up the level of mishaps based on how much the item was modified.



I also allow characters to make temporary repairs (like in Star Warriors)-basically bypassing and rerouting systems to get the ship working during the battle. Then later they do full repairs.

I have temporary repairs at two levels lower in difficulty, with repair times of 1 round, then 4 rounds, then 12 rounds, then 5 minutes, then 15 minutes.

They don''t last for more than about 15 minutes or so (bumped up with the success roll), or until the system gets hit again.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I always felt the Verpine were overpowered. I generally limit their special ability to +2D to every Tech roll when part of a Verpine Hive mind. In other words I treat the +2D as the other verpine being able to help them out instantaneously. Maxing out at +2D because they can only talk to so may other verpines in a limited amount of time.

My players got on my case about it and I treat it like a modified combined action. Each additional verpine that is available to be part of the hive mind adds +1 to the roll, up to 2D, no need for a command roll. So 2 verpine get +1 to their roll, 3 verpine get +2, 4 Verpine get +1D, up to 7 Verpine or more get the full 2D.

Works out very well, makes Sluissi the best specialist techs because they can max a skill to 4D at character creation and they get a +1D for taking twice the time for all tech repair rolls, Jawas the best general techs because they can start with 7 tech skills at 6D+2, and Verpine the best techs under certain circumstances.

I had one Sluissi player who took 4D in Starfigther repair and 4D in an X-wing specialization. With his attribute at 5D and the 1D bonus for preparation he was rolling at 14D from the start.
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