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Hellstorm
Commander
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 253
Location: Montreal, Canada
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 Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:05 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't mind playing very evil characters, even the good guys can have their "butchers" 8)
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Tuco: "But if you miss you had better miss very well. Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco."
-The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
Peter Griffin: "Embrace The Fear." -Family Guy |
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Ray
Commodore
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 1743
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Western Arm, Milky Way
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:15 am Post subject: |
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I'm working on a few stories of Mar Corel in my head...
He's a loyal friend, corageous leader, and staunch protector of his people...
And not a very nice man at all elsewise.
Arrogant, mean, vindictive, and has a pechant to violence that in a less self-controlled person would cause untold of damage to everyone and everything around him.
His one saving grace is that he knows this, and tries to prevent it...
Most of the time.
Even the "Good Guys" aren't all good. And can even be "Villianous" at the same time.
And Villians aren't all Villianous... They have their good sides as well.
Sentient Peoples are all complex beings. Very, very few folks are as they appear at first, second, or even third or fourth. |
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Hellstorm
Commander
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 253
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:39 am Post subject: |
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Cool 8)
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Tuco: "But if you miss you had better miss very well. Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco."
-The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
Peter Griffin: "Embrace The Fear." -Family Guy |
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Son of Fire
Captain
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 554
Location: Rose City Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | "One Sides Hero is The Other Sides Villian" and "It's the Victors that write the History Books". Two very true statements... Not exactly popular in this day and age, but true nonetheless.
As Obi-Wan said, "From a certain point of view...", to keep it completely on topic. |
It seems that my point was missed.  
I will reiterate, the SW universe is a universe of absolutes, and therefore there is good, and there is evil. Yes I know it is unrealistic, and in no way does it apply in the real world, but as others before me have stated, SW is a Space Opera…based on epic “fairytale” traditions. There is a princess, a scoundrel, an old wizard, and a know-nothing farm boy with a great “destiny”. These are all aspects that Lucas consciously incorporated into his films and mythos to have it resonate with the audience on a very primal level. He wanted to convey the good aspect even further in the special editions of the films, that’s why he made Greedo shoot first, which would leave Solo no choice but to defend himself. This was to drive home the point that Han was indeed a good-guy. Lucas wanted no ambiguity or grey-area in his universe, there is good, and there is evil. There is the Light side of the Force, and the Dark side.
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"My schooling not only failed to teach me what it professed to be teaching, but prevented me from being educated to an extent which infuriates me when I think of all I might have learned at home by myself." - George Bernard Shaw |
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Hellstorm
Commander
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 253
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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Greedo shooting first is probably the worst change he made in the special edition, in the original I knew that if Solo hadn't shot him, that Greedo would have killed him anyway. 8)
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Tuco: "But if you miss you had better miss very well. Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco."
-The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
Peter Griffin: "Embrace The Fear." -Family Guy |
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Son of Fire
Captain
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 554
Location: Rose City Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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That my be so, I knew that I did not much like the change either, but its not my creation, it belongs to Lucas, and so he altered it to reflect his vision of his universe.
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"My schooling not only failed to teach me what it professed to be teaching, but prevented me from being educated to an extent which infuriates me when I think of all I might have learned at home by myself." - George Bernard Shaw |
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Hellstorm
Commander
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 253
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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I think he went along with Spielberg and his toning down the violence of E.T., after all Solo did fire in the first edition and Lucas didn't have to make him do that to begin with I think he did have the final cut for his movie...I think  8) .
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Tuco: "But if you miss you had better miss very well. Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco."
-The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
Peter Griffin: "Embrace The Fear." -Family Guy |
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Volar the Healer
Jedi
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 664
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Hellstorm wrote: | | The problem for me is that the guys who make the coffee give it to the soldiers who need it then the soldiers go fight the good guys, so in my book if the coffee maker knows who he is serving he's just as guilty...but on the other hand if they "put a gun to his head" like take his family hostage then he really has no choice and that I wouldn't consider evil. 8) |
Agreed.
The only one who escaped the Nurnburg war trials with his life was a Nazi guard at a death camp who kept "losing" and "misfiling" paperwork resulting in Jews being released, or reassigned off the death rows. The Bishop of Koln, who gave consistently pro-German (not pro-Nazi) sermons, carried 5,000 baptism papers/month from Rome resulting in about 200,000 Jews who could prove they were Catholic - saving them from deportation to the death camps. These men are examples of resisting evil as best they can.
These types of situations could also create tense role playing situations for those who prefer darker campaigns. It would require a lot of thought on the part of the director, though. Has any one does this? Has anyone played a spy or double agent in Star Wars?
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Volar the Healer
Jedi
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 664
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Hellstorm wrote: | | Greedo shooting first is probably the worst change he made in the special edition, in the original I knew that if Solo hadn't shot him, that Greedo would have killed him anyway. 8) |
Agreed.
Heroism can be about the struggle to become better than you are. Luke is destined to become more powerful, but Han comes across as the bigger hero. Luke was always a good guy, but the audience identifies with Han because we can see him slowly changing. There is a place for bad guys who become good in heroic space opera.
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Ragnar
Commander
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 371
Location: Vacaville, CA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Volar the Healer wrote: | | Has any one does this? Has anyone played a spy or double agent in Star Wars? |
Isn't that simply the job of a Rebel Infiltrator...all you need is Con:Disguise and really good Sneak to do either of those jobs. |
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Ragnar
Commander
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 371
Location: Vacaville, CA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Volar the Healer wrote: | | There is a place for bad guys who become good in heroic space opera. |
I agree with this 100%. That is what Ragnar has done in the SW universe. He started out as a villianous Pirate, and has even crossed over to the side of complete evil, but now he shoots for the path of a hero. To become galactically known for his great accomplishments, not so much for his infamousness. |
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Volar the Healer
Jedi
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 664
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Ragnar wrote: | | Isn't that simply the job of a Rebel Infiltrator...all you need is Con:Disguise and really good Sneak to do either of those jobs. |
I think an infiltrator sneaks in, blows something up/captures something, then leaves. Has anyone played a situation where the character has a double life? By day he holds an Imperial position, but when nobody is looking he assists the Rebellion. Then is back on his Imperial job in the morning?
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Volar the Healer
Jedi
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 664
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Ragnar wrote: | | Volar the Healer wrote: | | There is a place for bad guys who become good in heroic space opera. |
I agree with this 100%. That is what Ragnar has done in the SW universe. He started out as a villianous Pirate...but now he shoots for the path of a hero. To become galactically known for his great accomplishments, not so much for his infamousness. |
I am attempting to do the same thing with Max (an ex-assassin). But my fellow players are still in the "just who is this guy?" stage. I think I'll stay here a bit longer (heh-heh). But this is as close as I've gotten to playing a bad guy.
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Know Jesus, Know Peace.
No Jesus, No Peace |
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Hellstorm
Commander
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 253
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Volar the Healer wrote: | | Ragnar wrote: | | Isn't that simply the job of a Rebel Infiltrator...all you need is Con:Disguise and really good Sneak to do either of those jobs. |
I think an infiltrator sneaks in, blows something up/captures something, then leaves. Has anyone played a situation where the character has a double life? By day he holds an Imperial position, but when nobody is looking he assists the Rebellion. Then is back on his Imperial job in the morning? |
That could make for an interresting situation where the character with the double life might have to do some horrible thing to lets say "someone he tried to help escape the imperial prison camp and the escape failed and he now has to prepare the execution of that prisoner" as an example 8)
_________________
Tuco: "But if you miss you had better miss very well. Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco."
-The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
Peter Griffin: "Embrace The Fear." -Family Guy |
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Ray wrote: | "One Sides Hero is The Other Sides Villian" and "It's the Victors that write the History Books". Two very true statements... Not exactly popular in this day and age, but true nonetheless.
As Obi-Wan said, "From a certain point of view...", to keep it completely on topic. |
Good point Ray.
I suppose how evil you are for serving the Empire is determined by how much you know of the Empires evil. If you are unaware of it then you can't be considered evil |
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