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garhkal
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 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | 1) average roll on 8D6 is 28 not 30+ so usually (absent CP or FP use) the character will fail the roll. |
I wsa thinking of 8d+2.. but your right.
| Bren wrote: | | 2) I have yet to see a PC starting out with an 8D skill in anything. How exactly would they start that high. It seems they would need a 6D stat plus a 2D skill add, which would make them a bit one sided in Comp prog/repair to slice in. Wouldn't they also need forgery as well? That would potentially be another 6D stat + 2D skill. That seems like a very one dimensional character. |
Lets see. Siloussi (sp) can start with 4d tech easy and get 2d for every 1d placed in some tech skills. Verpine are the same, and so are 1 other race (can't remember which right now). A rare few races have 5d tech. So with the 2d max skill placed, and a hacking specialty for CP/R they can get the 8d...
Trust me. Seen it done several times already.
| Bren wrote: | 3) While 8D6 can often roll into the 30s. Usually the roll will be lower. What happens if they roll lower - computer intrusion counter measures activated, security forces trying to trace the slicer back to their location, alerts to the BOSS computer network, etc. Also this seems like a wonderful place to cause trouble with a 1 on the wild die.
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That is usually what i have happen on a 1 as well. Back trace, intrusion detection systems.. Only on a mass failure (15 or lower for a heroic) will it actually get to them right away or worse. The baddies counter hack the pc's data term and place a tracer virus in it..
| Bren wrote: | | 4) Some of the 8D6 characters on planet may actually not want to illegally slice the BOSS database (they may be honest or cautious, see #3 above) so the actual number of possible sources of fake documents is smaller than the number of 8D6 skills. |
I'll give you that.
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Bren
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Bren wrote: | | 2) I have yet to see a PC starting out with an 8D skill in anything. How exactly would they start that high[?] |
Lets see. Siloussi (sp) can start with 4d tech easy and get 2d for every 1d placed in some tech skills. Verpine are the same, and so are 1 other race (can't remember which right now). A rare few races have 5d tech. So with the 2d max skill placed, and a hacking specialty for CP/R they can get the 8d...
Trust me. Seen it done several times already.
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Ahh...I see. Perhaps I have misinterpreted the rules, but I wouldn't let the the Sluissi add more than 2D to the skill.
Also I just checked the Aliens book and Sluissi don't actually get a 2 for 1, they get +4D extra dice to Technical with a max TECH of 5D, but tasks take them twice as long (goody another hazard for the slicer). I would probably give a Comp Prog/Rep specialization though I'm not sure if I would allow slicing as a specialty. But let's assume so, that get's the Sluissi to 7D, 8D for the specialization. While it is possible to make a 30+ roll, with average/median roll of ~ 28 most rolls will fail.
| crmcneill wrote: | | Per the RAW, Verpines have a racial max of 5D in Technical. |
Unless Gry Sarth has a typo in his Aliens list the Verpine have a max of 3D technical but get to add +2D when using technical skills. That only gets to 5D starting skill, maybe 6D with a specialization. Then a bonus in use for a total of 8D. With average/median roll of ~ 28 more than half the rolls will be below 30+. In fact if the recent D6 Magazine article's math is correct 58% of the time the roll will be below 30 (see the table on page 28 labeled The Bad).
But even if the Sluissi or the Verpine succeeds he would still need Bureaucracy (and possibly Law) to know what documents he needs and where to find them in the BOSS system. He might even need to write or manipulate computer programs to get the proper information added to all the right databases. Even if it isn't an adventure in itself, I just don't see this as a single skill, single roll activity. And unless the Sluissi or the Verpine has similarly high skills in Bureaucracy (and possibly Law) he will need to spend more CPs or another FP to succeed.
Many NPCs don't have the FP. And many don't have a lot of CPs to trade for whatever the PCs are paying them. If this is a starting PC they may just have traded away their force point (in a selfish use) or their handful of CPs for the license. All things considered, that doesn't seem like a "relatively easy" activity to me.
P.S. Jawas are another TECH species. They have a max TECH of 4D+2 and they get +2D for every 1D they place in TECH skills. However, for my Jawa PC I assumed that meant his max starting skill was 6D+2 (7D+2 for a specialization). Not sure if the RAW is clear on this, but it seems a reasonable interpretation to me both as the player and if I were the GM. |
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:28 am Post subject: |
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It is a typo. Verpine can max out at 5D and with the bonus of 2D they can get to 9D before specalizations. However there are almost always detrimental factors to limit such characters.
Verpine for instance don't really like to be out of the hive for too long so any verpine PC I see needs some sort of justification for trying to exist away from Roche, and it has to be good.
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Bren
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | It is a typo. Verpine can max out at 5D and with the bonus of 2D they can get to 9D before specalizations. However there are almost always detrimental factors to limit such characters.
Verpine for instance don't really like to be out of the hive for too long so any verpine PC I see needs some sort of justification for trying to exist away from Roche, and it has to be good. |
Ah, thanks Essoomian. I don't have access to my library (wrong side of the ocean) so I have to rely on Gry Sarth's copies.
I'm not sure a 2xslow acting insectoid that has been away from his/her/its hive so long as to possibly become deranged or insane would necessarily be a safe or easy choice to get new papers from. And the need for non TEC skills would still apply, in my opinion. Those skills may be doubly hard for the Verpine to acquire.
But now that I think about it, I like the idea of sending the characters to a very fussy, prissy, overly methodical, deranged Verpine who is continually listening to comlink channels (music, talk radio, police band?) via his antennae. Think of the possibilities.  |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Could act like Wreck gar from the transformers movie (animated)..
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Its bad when a species is so über that the GM has to come up with limiting factors... There should be some kind of 'part of a collective' rule in the species special rule IMO. I rule that the high Tech skills comes from being able to partly draw from the collective knowledge of the hive. Away from the hive all tech skills and the tech attribute are at -2D (as no one has ever created a low-tech verpine I havent had to adress what happens when you apply a -2D penalty).
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Rerun941
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Its bad when a species is so über that the GM has to come up with limiting factors... There should be some kind of 'part of a collective' rule in the species special rule IMO. I rule that the high Tech skills comes from being able to partly draw from the collective knowledge of the hive. Away from the hive all tech skills and the tech attribute are at -2D (as no one has ever created a low-tech verpine I havent had to adress what happens when you apply a -2D penalty). |
I played a Verpine throughout college and there was no way he was overpowered. Yeah, he could slice into nearly any computer system... but that was it. He was a one-trick pony. He always went to the tech station onboard a starship and was mostly worthless in combat. But I enjoyed playing him.
I played him really anxious without the collective hive, but he eventually retuned all the PCs comlinks so he could talk to them and they became his new "hive". And if he saw a shiny, new piece of technology he would drop everything and go inspect, disassemble and reassemble it. (even in the middle of a firefight.)
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Bren
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | I rule that the high Tech skills comes from being able to partly draw from the collective knowledge of the hive. Away from the hive all tech skills and the tech attribute are at -2D (as no one has ever created a low-tech verpine I havent had to adress what happens when you apply a -2D penalty). |
That could work.
One could also rule that the Verpine gets the +2D only when working slow (takes twice as long as normal) as described. If trying to do tasks in normal time remove the bonus or even apply a corresponding -2D penalty. |
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Rerun941
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | I rule that the high Tech skills comes from being able to partly draw from the collective knowledge of the hive. Away from the hive all tech skills and the tech attribute are at -2D (as no one has ever created a low-tech verpine I havent had to adress what happens when you apply a -2D penalty). |
That could work.
One could also rule that the Verpine gets the +2D only when working slow (takes twice as long as normal) as described. If trying to do tasks in normal time remove the bonus or even apply a corresponding -2D penalty. |
The one suggestion I've heard (that I agree with) regarding the Verpine tech bonus is that they only get the bonus to skills in which they've spent dice or CPs to improve above the Attribute. (Essentially, you don't get the +2D Tech bonus for unskilled usage.)
Which seems fair (and easy to remember).
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Rerun941 wrote: | The one suggestion I've heard (that I agree with) regarding the Verpine tech bonus is that they only get the bonus to skills in which they've spent dice or CPs to improve above the Attribute. (Essentially, you don't get the +2D Tech bonus for unskilled usage.)
Which seems fair (and easy to remember). |
That's how I do it.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Rerun941 wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | Its bad when a species is so über that the GM has to come up with limiting factors... There should be some kind of 'part of a collective' rule in the species special rule IMO. I rule that the high Tech skills comes from being able to partly draw from the collective knowledge of the hive. Away from the hive all tech skills and the tech attribute are at -2D (as no one has ever created a low-tech verpine I havent had to adress what happens when you apply a -2D penalty). |
I played a Verpine throughout college and there was no way he was overpowered. Yeah, he could slice into nearly any computer system... but that was it. He was a one-trick pony. He always went to the tech station onboard a starship and was mostly worthless in combat. But I enjoyed playing him.
I played him really anxious without the collective hive, but he eventually retuned all the PCs comlinks so he could talk to them and they became his new "hive". And if he saw a shiny, new piece of technology he would drop everything and go inspect, disassemble and reassemble it. (even in the middle of a firefight.) |
Its only a one trick pony if you make it so. You dont have to put all your dice and CPs into Tech. You can start out with über skills in tech (for only 1D per skill), have a few starting dice for other skills just like other characters.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Very true. I know one pc who spent 6 of his starting 7d into different tech skills.. so with his TECH being 5d, he was rolling 8d for those skills inc the racial bonus..
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Very true. I know one pc who spent 6 of his starting 7d into different tech skills.. so with his TECH being 5d, he was rolling 8d for those skills inc the racial bonus.. |
And if you only put 3D starting dice, at 1D each, in your favourite tech skills you will have 8D in those skills, 7D in the rest (5D if you go with the above 'home brew' rule, still very good given that you have it in all tech skills) and keep 4D for other skills (just like any character in general).
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | And if you only put 3D starting dice, at 1D each, in your favourite tech skills you will have 8D in those skills, 7D in the rest (5D if you go with the above 'home brew' rule, still very good given that you have it in all tech skills) and keep 4D for other skills (just like any character in general). |
This is true but with sinking 5D into the tech attribute that only gives them 13D to distribute in the other 5 stats so it averages out to 2D+2 in four of those stats and 2D+1 in the other. With only 4D for skills they probably need 1D for dodge, 1D for blaster and probably 1D for some sort of parry so you've still got a really restricted character.
Sure they're awesome at the tech stuff but everything else is going to be a struggle for them.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | And if you only put 3D starting dice, at 1D each, in your favourite tech skills you will have 8D in those skills, 7D in the rest (5D if you go with the above 'home brew' rule, still very good given that you have it in all tech skills) and keep 4D for other skills (just like any character in general). |
This is true but with sinking 5D into the tech attribute that only gives them 13D to distribute in the other 5 stats so it averages out to 2D+2 in four of those stats and 2D+1 in the other. With only 4D for skills they probably need 1D for dodge, 1D for blaster and probably 1D for some sort of parry so you've still got a really restricted character.
Sure they're awesome at the tech stuff but everything else is going to be a struggle for them. |
Well, theres only a 1D difference from a human techie, who is not even close to getting close to the Verpine.
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