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New Republic TIE Fighter
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gamer wrote:
Don't need anything from a super tie.
Can use a standard Tie or gt space frame and bomber/shuttle wings and have all the space without the cost of the super Tie spaceframe.
Could even retrofit the standards that already have in inventory at added benefit with little added cost.


All excellent benefits. I feel much the same as you about the super TIE models. Assuming I even allow them in my game, i prefer to keep those strictly as Imperial models, maybe something that a megalomaniac warlord dreamed up as his own version of the TIE Avenger or Defender.
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Fallon Kell
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
Reenforced landing skids on the bottom of the wing panels would work, but the cockpit is still pretty high off the ground, so it would be hard to do field deployment without ground crew waiting with a ladder. Plus, the concept of folding wings for landing just feels more like Star Wars to me.

Folding wings is fine. I was just figuring on a simple folding ladder hanging out of a ventral hatch. The cockpit itself isn't any farther from the ground than an X-wing's.
Gamer wrote:
Don't need anything from a super tie.
Can use a standard Tie or gt space frame and bomber/shuttle wings and have all the space without the cost of the super Tie spaceframe.
Could even retrofit the standards that already have in inventory at added benefit with little added cost.

Well I'm not trying to force anyone to use the Avenger, but I'll still make the case for it.

I'd say there's nothing inherently expensive about the shape of an Avenger, and the spaceframe itself isn't where the cost comes from. It's from jamming all those expensive engines and weapons and shields into it. Aside from capabilities, the next general factor in cost is size. Bigger ships can do more, but they cost more. It's more expensive to make a 60 foot fighter that can do mach 2 than to make a 45 foot fighter that can do mach 2. The smaller spaceframe is an advantage, both in having a smaller cross section to hit, and a cheaper frame to build.

The Avenger is the TIE that most closely resembles the X-wing, and the best starting point for a NR fighter. With its capabilities reduced to be more on par with the X-wing, and with the benefits of SFS mass production and standardized parts, It would probably also be a very cost-effective solution.
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Hellcat
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems it was after Thrawn's campaign that SFS started selling to the New Republic. Though if the NR was buying TIEs or some other SFS desing I can't say.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fallon Kell wrote:
Well I'm not trying to force anyone to use the Avenger, but I'll still make the case for it.

I'd say there's nothing inherently expensive about the shape of an Avenger, and the spaceframe itself isn't where the cost comes from. It's from jamming all those expensive engines and weapons and shields into it. Aside from capabilities, the next general factor in cost is size. Bigger ships can do more, but they cost more. It's more expensive to make a 60 foot fighter that can do mach 2 than to make a 45 foot fighter that can do mach 2. The smaller spaceframe is an advantage, both in having a smaller cross section to hit, and a cheaper frame to build.


The Avenger frame is noticeably larger than the TIE/ln frame, so if the goal is cost reduction, the basic TIE frame is a better choice, because it consumes fewer raw materials in its construction. In the stats I posted above for the T-Wing, the shields are located on the ends of the wing hubs and the hyperdrive is mounted in an extension on the back of the ball cockpit. Apart from that, the T-Wing uses basic TIE components which (according to Corran Horn) are the third most common elements in the universe, after hydrogen and stupidity.

Quote:
The Avenger is the TIE that most closely resembles the X-wing, and the best starting point for a NR fighter. With its capabilities reduced to be more on par with the X-wing, and with the benefits of SFS mass production and standardized parts, It would probably also be a very cost-effective solution.


gamer made the point that using the standard TIE ball cockpit would mean that existing TIEs could be rebuilt into T-Wings, which would be even more cost effective than manufacturing new ones based on the Avenger cockpit. At 80,000 credits a copy (and X-Wings going for 150,000 a copy), the T-Wing is designed to be mass produced and free up X-Wings for other missions, not be an X-Wing copy. And IIRC, Avengers were only a little more common than Defenders (in fact, Defenders seem to show up more often in the EU than Avengers).
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Hellcat
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



I don't know, that doesn't look like a ball cockpit to me. Sounds more like Gamer is talking about producing an Ugly and calling it a T-Wing
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never liked that ship. I'm inventing my own ship and calling it a T-Wing (T for TIE fighter). The back story behind mine is that it is an actual Sienar Fleet Systems project, designed post Endor once SFS (long considered an Imperial company) decided to become "neutral" in the war between the Republic and Empire, and start selling to both sides.

My proposed T-Wing is basically a remanufactured TIE fighter, with upgrades made to make it more "Republic friendly" as far as being more durable, longer ranged (hyperdrive) and versatile.

I suppose I could always change the name. H-Wing? For how a TIE looks from the front? S-Wing for Seinar Fleet Systems? The whole Aurabesh fighter series is cluttered with rejected or failed designs that were supposed to take off, but never really did, so now those of us who want to make our own versions have to either ignore certain ships in the canon, or pick and choose the ship's name carefully.
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Hellcat
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately there already is an H-Wing.


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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly my point. A perfectly good letter taken up by an EU ship that was written up so as to have never quite gotten off the ground. S-Wing it is, then. The posted stat is now the S-Wing.
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Hellcat
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always the B-15 Twin Wing
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my recollection of the xwing novels (well wraith squadron) most of the ties in use by the NR were captured and used to help hide the wraiths.. NOT bought that way.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
From my recollection of the xwing novels (well wraith squadron) most of the ties in use by the NR were captured and used to help hide the wraiths.. NOT bought that way.


Read my previous posts more carefully, please. This starfighter was designed for the New Republic by Seinar Fleet Systems. It is not a captured TIE. The back story is that Seinar Fleet System made a pragmatic decision to be a neutral company and sell products to both sides, rather than just to the Imperials. This fighter is designed to use existing SFS tech to produce a product that was more in line with New Republic starfighter doctrine. This fighter won't come into production until the end of the Dark Empire era
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Bren
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having the Alliance and the early New Republic use captured TIEs for planetary defense, especially in less important systems, for anti-starfighter defense based on captured Star Destroyers, and maybe TIEs and TIE bombers for ground support for army units all makes sense. It is a case of making use of available resources in a climate of resource scarcity. Over time, the maintenance cost on flying TIEs would rise as existing spare-parts are used up and I would expect TIE units to be replaced with non-TIE ships.

I think buying brand new TIEs would be politically a non-starter for the NR or let us say about as likely as the US Military buying brand new Russian-made fighters.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
I think buying brand new TIEs would be politically a non-starter for the NR or let us say about as likely as the US Military buying brand new Russian-made fighters.


Well, they do end up buying Star Destroyers from KDY...
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Bren
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
Bren wrote:
I think buying brand new TIEs would be politically a non-starter for the NR or let us say about as likely as the US Military buying brand new Russian-made fighters.


Well, they do end up buying Star Destroyers from KDY...
It appears that a lot of the ships called New Republic Star Destroyers are a totally different design than the Imperial class SDs made by KDY and are not made by KDY, but by other firms - which is consistent with a political rationale.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Republic-class_Star_Destroyer
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nebula-class_Star_Destroyer
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's still no guarantee that it wouldn't happen. After all, Seinar is a huge company with galaxy spanning interests. A few lobbyists, some friendly senators, and there you go. A company this size would need to adapt to the changing political landscape of the galaxy, and that means they would find a way to market their product to a different market (namely, the Republic).
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