The Seven Forms

[CRMcNeill]

So, one of my many projects is a way to work out rules for the classic Seven Lightsaber Forms into good rules that work with the RAW. The way I'm figuring it, Form I is the basic lightsaber skill, and Forms II-VII are advanced skills. The advanced skills would then only be applied to the combat situation the given Form specializes in. To reflect how Jedi mix lightsaber combat and brawling, I think Brawling should be a prerequisite for the Advanced Forms, and the bonus could be applied to Brawling as well. Some of the forms are pretty easy; melee combat for Form II, defense for Form III, offense for Form V. Form VI is less obvious; given its emphasis on negotiation, some of the non-combat skills like Persuasion or Bluff might be good prerequisites. Form VII would be an "advanced" advanced form, requiring minimum dice in several other Forms, and providing the highest bonuses to combat. However, every round, the character would have to roll Willpower or succumb to the call of the Dark Side.

That leaves me with Form IV. The description states that it emphasizes Force-assisted movement, so what would be a good way for movement in combat to be expressed in a fashion compatible with the RAW? I think for starters that a Form IV practitioner could ignore MAPs when moving and fighting in the same round, but what else would be appropriate above and beyond that?

As a fair warning, I'm not interested in discourses on how the KOTOR video game treated the Seven Forms (IMO, they butchered them). I don't want to develop a system with a bunch of unique special moves for each form; this is going to be strictly dice value based, where each given form enhances the Jedi's skill dice values in some way that is compatible with the given Form.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[CRMcNeill]

OK, here is my initial concept:

Form I - Shii-Cho
-Basic Lightsaber Skill

Form II - Makashi (A)
-Prerequisites:
--Lightsaber 6D
--Brawling 6D
-Advantage:
--Bonus equal to character's Form II skill dice is applied to lightsaber vs. lightsaber or brawling combat

Form III - Soresu (A)
-Prerequisites:
--Lightsaber 5D
--Brawling 5D
--Dodge 5D
-Advantage:
--Bonus equal to character's Form III skill dice is applied to defensive actions with all prerequisite skills.

Form IV - Ataru (A)
-Prerequisites:
--Lightsaber 5D
--Brawling 5D
--Dodge 5D
--Jumping 6D
-Advantage:
--Bonus equal to character's Form IV skill dice is split equally between Lightsaber/Brawling and Dodge/Jumping. In addition, the character does not suffer a MAP when using Lightsaber/Brawling and Dodge/Jumping in the same round.

Form V - Djem So (A)
-Prerequisites:
--Lightsaber 5D
--Strength 3D
--Brawling 5D
-Advantage:
--Bonus equal to character's Form V skill dice is applied to Lightsaber and Brawling when attacking or when parrying blaster bolts back at an attacker.

Form VI - Niman (A)
-Prerequisites:
--Lightsaber 5D
--Brawling 5D
--Persuasion 5D
--Intimidation 5D
-Advantage:
--Bonus equal to character's Form VI skill dice is applied to Persuasion and Intimidation.

Form VII - Juyo (A)
-Prerequisites:
--Lightsaber 6D
--Brawling 6D
--Form II 2D
--Form III 2D
--Form IV 2D
--Form V 2D
--Willpower 7D
-Advantage:
--Bonus equal to the character's Form VII skill is applied to Lightsaber and Brawling in all situations
-Complication:
--Every round of combat with Form VII, the character must make a Willpower check against the character's Form VII roll that round (+5 for each of the character's DSPs). On a failure, the character temporarily gives in to the Dark Side. If he kills or wounds his opponent, he earns a DSP. If he does not, roll again as normal the next round (at +5 difficulty).


This is just a bare bones version, but I would appreciate the forum's input. I know that this version won't work for everyone, but if this looks like something that would work for you (or close to it), I'd appreciate your input.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Yasriia]

Oh my god. This sounds like what I always wanted. Right now, I don't have a Jedi in my group, so I can't playtest it, but the idea of an advanced skill that give in some situations a bonus is quite good.

[CRMcNeill]

[CRMcNeill]

FORM VARIATIONS:
-These are not strictly separate from the core Seven Forms. Instead, they are variations developed to incorporate different weapons, weapon styles, or styles of combat into the existing forms. When the variation is used, it is referred to as the variation of the given form (the Shien variation of Djem So, or the Jar'Kai variation of Ataru, for example).
-Cost:
--To learn a variation, the practitioner must pay 10 CPs to learn the initial variation (of Shii-Cho). Once the basic variation has been learned, the practitioner may begin to apply that knowledge to other forms (at a cost of 5 CP per form). The practitioner may only apply the variation to one new form per level-up.

Shien
-This variation covers the use of a normal lightsaber with an unorthodox stance. Examples would include Galen Marek's reversed guard with his saber behind his back, and Nikkos Tyris' reversed guard with the saber down and to the front.
-Advantage:
--A Shien adept gains a bonus of +1D to Lightsaber, due to his opponent's lack of familiarity with the unorthodox stance.

Jar'Kai
-This variation covers the use of two lightsabers simultaneously; one in each hand.
-Advantage:
--A Jar'Kai adept gains +1D to Lightsaber when wielding dual lightsabers, and may divide his Control-based Damage bonus between the sabers, subject to declaration before the attack.

Lus-ma
-This variation covers the use of a light-staff or double-bladed lightsaber.
-Advantage:
--A Lus-ma adept gains +1D to Lightsaber when wielding a Light-Staff, and may divide his Control-based Damage bonus between the saber's blades, subject to declaration before the attack.
-Note: Lus-Ma is mentioned only in Labyrinth of Evil as a lightsaber combat technique taught to General Grievous and his Magnaguards, with little or no description. However, since Light-staff Combat lacks an official name, and the Magnaguards all wield staff weapons, I decided to splice the two together.

La'nok
-This variation covers the use of Telekinesis to control a thrown lightsaber. Unlike other variations, La'nok need only be learned once, at the basic level.
-Advantage:
--This technique allows the Jedi to use Telekinesis to control his blade from a distance without incurring a MAP.
-Note: The name for this variation is my own invention, derived from the Sith Lanvarok disc-throwing weapon.

Trispzest
-This variation was developed by Jedi with natural flight abilities, allowing them to apply lightsaber combat techniques to airborne battles. As such, Trispzest has also become popular with Form IV practitioners, who often utilize leaps and flips that allow them to utilize Trispzest's aerial combat techniques.
-Advantage:
--The Jedi may use a Lightsaber in the same round as a Move action that involves aerial movement (either flight or leaping) without incurring a MAP.

Mounted Lightsaber Combat
-This variation allows the Jedi to wield his Lightsaber while riding on an animal or in an open-top vehicle.
-Advantage:
--The Jedi does not incur a MAP for using Beastriding or any Vehicle Operation skill in the same round as Lightsaber and Lightsaber Combat.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[CRMcNeill]

DISCIPLINES:
-Unlike Variations, Disciplines are learned as a separate skill, focusing on some aspect of combat related to Lightsaber combat, but usually with a broader, more flexible scope. They are considered Advanced Skills, but they function more as Dice Pools than actual skills. In both cases, the Dice Pool is equal to 2x the character's skill level in the given discipline. If an opponent is trained in either Discipline, he may use his own dice pool to counter the effect in combat.

Sokan (A)
-Prerequisite:
--Lightsaber 6D
-Advantage:
--This discipline emphasizes tactical training; using the dueling environment to one's advantage. In the event of a Wild Die success by the Sokan practitioner or a Wild Die failure by his opponent, the Sokan adept can choose to spend either all or a portion of his Sokan skill dice on his initiative and combat rolls in the next round. Once the dice is expended, it is no longer available to the character until the duel ends. Because Sokan is based on proper positioning of one's opponent to take advantage of the environment, a successful Force Back or Shift result on the combat chart results in a greater chance of a Wild Die result in the following round (1-2 instead of 1 for Wild Dice Fail, 5-6 instead of 6 for Wild Dice Success). This bonus is cumulative for multiple successful Force Backs or Shifts, but drops to 0 again on a Wild Dice result.
-Note:
--The rules for this Discipline are intended to be used with either the Dueling Blades alternate lightsaber rules, or with Bren's alternate Dueling Blades rules.

Trakata (A)
-Prerequisite:
--Lightsaber 6D
-Advantage:
--This discipline covers deception and feint techniques, primarily using the lightsaber's unique ability to deactivate and instantly reactivate, but also a blanket term for Jedi using deceptive techniques at critical moments in battle. On a successful initiative roll, a Jedi may apply all or part of his Trakata skill dice as a bonus to his Lightsaber skill roll that round. Once the dice is expended, it is no longer available to the character until the duel ends.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Azai]

Despite having worked on my own forms, I really like this. It is seems a lot easier to get into and apply, using the forms as advanced skills. I always get so stressed trying to find the correct balance with what I've done ;P.

Here are a few ideas off the fly.

Ever think of using form weakness? With this system it seems a little easier to put in. As it seems most all Forms(usually) have a weakness to one form or another. Djem So (With strength) could push off someone using Makashi, Makashi was superior to Shii-Cho... Etc.

Something along the lines where maybe they get a -1D against the style, effects lightsaber combat, or they can only use half of their form style is the opposing form is used?

Forms ideas...

Form I - Shii-Cho, in lots of the reading it suggest Shii-Cho is made to fight against blaster fire. Perhaps bonus against that? Or are you trying to keep one still a standard no bonus style?

Form IV - So essentially I have 4D is Ataru. Which means I can apply 2D to lightsaber, and 2D to Dodge?


Form IV - This still always made me think. Lots of places give persuasion benefits for using it, but that never felt right to me. As in anyone who would be persuaded by a lightsaber would be persuaded by any kind of lightsaber. Most wouldn't know the nature of a style, or just the fact a certain style would be more persuasive. Though from what I've read it always seem to be the style that was good at everything, but excelled at nothing. The neutral style that gave no benefits but also didn't give negatives.

Vaapad - I really like what you did here. To be completely honest. Just wanted to say it

[Grimace]

I think you might need to revise Form IV: Ataru, a little. As it is, it reads like a Jedi that decides to use lightsaber and brawling in the same round can take an infinite number of actions while suffering absolutely no ill effects.

Player: "I'm using my Form 4 and am going to attack 8 guys with a combination of kicks, backhands and lightsaber attacks. I get my full dice, plus my bonuses for Lightsaber Combat, so I slice everyone without a problem as none of them are going to exceed my 12D since I don't incur any multi-action penalties."

Other than that one, all the rest look pretty interesting.

[Azai]

I think crmcneill might mean you can make either a lightsaber or brawling attack AND a dodge/jump movement in the same round without any MAP.

As in lightsaber/brawling going hand to hand. Dodge/jump going hand and hand. But if I do lightsaber, and then a brawling attack I would get a MAP

[CRMcNeill]

[CRMcNeill]

[CRMcNeill]

[CRMcNeill]

OK, based on a discussion with Azai in another thread, I had this brainstorm on Form IV.

Form IV - Ataru (A)
-Prerequisites:
--Lightsaber 5D
--Brawling 5D
--Dodge 5D
--Jumping 6D
-Advantage:
--At the beginning of the combat round, the Ataru adept makes a Moderate Jump check (including his Ataru advanced skill dice), then compares the result to the following table to generate his bonus for the rest of the round. The Jump check to determine the bonus is a free action, and does not generate a MAP.

Skill Roll
> Difficulty = Bonus
0-13 = +1D
14-25 = +2D
26+ = +3D
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[CRMcNeill]

STAMINA IN A DUEL:

At the beginning of the first round of combat, both combatants make a Very Easy Stamina roll. The combatants must roll again at the beginning of each subsequent round, with the difficulty increasing by +1 per round. (Using this rule, it may take many, many rounds of combat to get to the point where fatigue becomes an issue. If you want to make it happen faster, increase the difficulty by one level per round).

If at any point a combatant fails the Stamina roll, he suffers an automatic Off-Balance result (See Dueling Blades). In addition, he is fatigued (as covered under the description of the Stamina skill), and can no longer attack, just defend.

If the character is fighting defensively, his Stamina difficulty increases at half the normal rate (+1 every 2 rounds, or +1 level every two rounds).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[garhkal]

I'd say go up by +2 per round..
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