The Seven Forms

[Bren]

[CRMcNeill]

[CRMcNeill]

[Naaman]

Yeah, I know what you mean about the jumps and flips and stuff. And of course, there was no such thing as the 7 forms when episode 1 or 2 were being written, so this is all just "us" trying to categorize something based on our observations.

But I'm not convinced that Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon at any point was "dedicated" to form 4. As I posted above, it seems to me that each form is just a manifestation of different characters emphasizing different aspects of LSC, rather than training in a specific discipline. So, while one character might use flips and spins A LOT because it's what works for their ability set, another might just use them as necessary, since they rely on other options that the lightsaber and the Force provide.

That being said, if form 4 represents dedication to incorporating spins and flips into combat, then I'm not convinced that Qui Gon or Obi Wan is at any time more dedicated to form 4 than any other form. I mean, after all, they did pop a lot of droids by aiming their own shots back at them. But no-one is saying that the are form 5 users.

[CRMcNeill]

[CRMcNeill]

So, this is something I originally posted in Bren's Yet Another Lightsaber Variant topic, but as I'm progressing with where I want to go with it, it becomes more appropriate to move it over here. I'll explain at the bottom.

In the films, we see special moves in the form of disarms, knockdowns, brawling strikes, and the occasional grapple, so here is a variation on Bren's rules that includes that.

Step 1 = Both sides declare what result they are aiming for. The choices are Normal, Brawling, Disarm, Knockdown, Grapple or Maneuver. If they do not choose, then default to Normal.

Step 2 = Roll for the result on the following table. The first three results are the same as on Bren's result table, but the last four are changed to reflect the result that the duelist declared at the beginning of the round. On a success, the duelist may choose to inflict a lesser result, but is still limited to the Result chart that he declared at the beginning of the round.

0-2 = Bind (Both opponents forfeit any further attacks this round, instead making opposed Strength or Lifting rolls. Loser is forced back as below. If lifting rolls are tied, continue bind next round).
3-6 = Forced Back (Loser must retreat or suffer a -1D penalty the next round)
7-10 = Off Balance (Attacker gains +1D6 bonus to next attack)

Normal Result
11-14 = Glancing Blow (Normal damage w/ max result of Wounded)
15-18 = Solid Blow (Normal damage w/ max result of Incapacitated)
19-22 = Serious Blow (Normal damage w/ max result of Mortally Wounded)
23+ = Deadly Blow (Normal damage w/ max result of Killed)

Brawling Result
11-14 = Glancing Blow (Stun damage w/ Max result of 1 Stun)
15-18 = Solid Blow (Stun damage w/ Max result of 2 Stuns)
19-22 = Serious Blow (Stun damage w/ Max result of 3 Stuns)
23+ = Powerful Blow (Stun damage w/ no result limit)
Note: For the purposes of lightsaber combat, multiple Stunned results stack (i.e. 2 Stunned results equal a -2D penalty), and wear off at a rate of 1D per round.

Disarm Result
11-14 = Simple Disarm (Weapon lost, but can be retrieved with a standard action, with the attendant -1D MAP)
15-18 = Serious Disarm (Weapon lost and flies 1D meters in a random direction. Character incurs a MAP for picking up the weapon, in addition to any MAPs for moving to get to the weapon)
19-22 = Weapon Strike (Weapon struck by opponent and takes normal damage. Loser can choose to downgrade to Serious Disarm on a Lightsaber reaction skill check @ +5 standard difficulty, but weapon lands 2D meters away instead of 1D)
23+ = Weapon Steal (Weapon lost and taken by opponent)

Knockdown Result
11-14 = Shove (Victim is forced back off balance and suffers -2D penalty until the end of the next round)
15-18 = Throw (Victim is knocked prone and must either wait one round to stand or suffer multiple action penalties)
19-22 = Stunning Throw (Victim is knocked prone and takes Stun damage)
23+ = Power Throw (Victim is knocked prone and takes Normal Damage)
Note: While knocked Prone, a character lands 1D meters away in a random direction. Standing up is a standard action, and until they stand, the character is limited to Cautious Movement, suffers a -2D penalty to brawling and melee weapons, and -4D to dodge (but gains a +1D bonus to blasters / firearms).

Grappling Result
11-14 = Weapon Grapple (Opponent's weapon is immobilized, and cannot be used to attack or parry until the grapple is broken. The grappled character cannot move, but may make attacks with his free hand at -1D)
15-18 = Normal Grapple (Opponent is grappled as normal)
19-22 = Power Grapple (Opponent is grappled as normal, but grappler has +1D advantage for the remainder of the grapple)
23+ = Superior Grapple (As above, but grappler has +2D advantage)

Maneuver Result
11-14 = Feint (Opponent is successfully deceived by a false maneuver, and is at -1D for the rest of the round and all of the following round)
15-18 = Sidestep (As Feint, but the duelist is now standing at his opponent's side, and is at -1D+2 for the rest of the round, and -1D for the following round)
19-22 = Pass (As Feint, but the duelist is now behind his opponent, placing the opponent at a serious disadvantage. He fights at -2D unless he makes a standard move action with associated MAPs to turn around and face his opponent).
23+ = Confound (The opponent is so thoroughly confused by the duelist's maneuver that the duelist can make an unopposed strike, with a maximum damage result based on the following table)

23-26 = Wounded
27-30 = Incapacitated
31-34 = Mortally Wounded
35+ = Killed


The way I'm thinking, based on their descriptions, the various Seven Lightsaber Forms will favor one Result choice over the others, or be more vulnerable to some than others. For instance, Form V might favor Knockdowns and Brawling Strikes, while Form II would be particularly resistant to Disarm results and Form IV would be practically addicted to the Maneuver result.

The rules for the result chart itself are not completely ironed out at the moment; I included them more for clarity so that you could see where I'm going with it. I'd like some input as to what result charts favor what Forms, which charts are more or less effective against what Forms, and what results will be common to all Forms. Some of these will be blatantly obvious, and others will require discussion.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[CRMcNeill]

With regards to my Form VII write-up, in the ROTS novel, Mace Windu makes the remark that he developed Vaapad, the Form VII evolution, to counteract the darkness in himself. Should I change the rules for Vaapad such that a Vaapad practitioner must have at least 1 DSP? If anything, because of the nature of the Form, the practitioner should actually gain a bonus from his DSPs, which simulates the knife's-edge balance of the form even better in game terms...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[CRMcNeill]

So, I've got the other Forms locked in the way I like them, but Form IV is still proving hard to nail down. However, I think I'm on to something. In Fightsaber, the definition of Form IV specifically mentions that the Form takes advantage of a Jedi's ability to use the Force to enhance their physical performance. In RPG terms, the best indicator of a Jedi's ability to enhance his physical prowess is his Control skill. I'm already using the Control roll for bringing up Lightsaber Combat as the basis for a Stamina bonus to all Forms, so what I'm thinking is, for Form IV, the combat bonus will either match the Stamina bonus, or be split equally as a bonus between Lightsaber and a dice pool used with Running and Jumping.

As far as the value of the bonus, I'm split between two ideas; either 1). I want the bonus to match the bonuses of the other Forms, both in the initial values and at the rate of increase per CP expended, or 2). I want Form IV to start off somewhat behind the other Forms but ultimately surpass them, so that it isn't as useful at first, but pays off as a long-term investment. Ultimately, considering that the bonus is linked to the advancement of a regular skill instead of an advanced one (like the other advanced Forms), I will probably end up going with Option 2.

Thoughts?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Fallon Kell]

[CRMcNeill]

[Fallon Kell]

Okay. That makes sense to me.
On a side note, would you allow mixed forms?
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Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier

Complete Starship Construction System

[CRMcNeill]

[CRMcNeill]

Ok, here are my updated stats for Forms IV and VI. I like the way they look, but I would appreciate perspective from some fresh eyes.

Form IV - Ataru (A)
-Prerequisites:
--Lightsaber 5D
--Brawling 5D
--Dodge 5D
--Running 5D
--Jumping 5D
Note: Must also have the Force ability Enhance Attribute.
-Advantage:
--Ataru has a bonus that is applied to Lightsaber in all combat conditions, as well as to Running and Jumping actions, with some restrictions. The bonus value is based on the adept's Control roll when he brought up Lightsaber Combat (+1D for every 6 points of success). However, the bonus cannot exceed the character's Ataru skill level, and must be distributed between the adept's Lightsaber dice and the Movement bonus (minimum of 1D in each).


Form VI - Niman (A)
-Prerequisites:
--Lightsaber 5D
--Brawling 5D
--Dodge 5D
-Advantage:
--Niman has a total bonus equal to the adept's skill level. However, the bonus is distributed between Lightsaber combat and non-combat skills (For every 3 pips, 1 must be spent on the Lightsaber, 1 must be spent on another skill, and 1 can be spent on either at the adept's discretion). When applying the bonus dice to other skills, the adept may select from the full skill list, including Force skills.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Naaman]

I'm not sure I understand these ones.

Let's see if I have this right. A character with 3D in Ataru adds 3D to his lightsaber skill at all times. In addition, he may add his control dice (up to 3D) to running and jumping checks or any other rolls used specifically to win the fight. These bonus 3D are a dice pool and may be distributed as the Jedi sees fit, with a minimum of 1D in lightsaber and a minimum of 1D in running... and a minimum of 1D in jumping (?)

What is the "each" in "minimum of 1D in each" referring to?

Are the bonus pips from form 6 modular, or do they stick once you've assigned them (for example, during character advancement, when you spend character points to advance form 6, do the pips you buy get assigned permanently to other skills instead)?

In my version of form 6 (and I'm using different mechanics than you are to express the "advancedness" of the forms, so take what you like from this, toss what you can't use) I did it like this:

Prereqs: 4D Lightsaber, 5D persuasion, 5D command, 5D intimidation; must know the affect mind force power.

Adds form 6 dice to lightsaber skill. In addition, each die gained allows the advancement of one of the following skills by a single pip: any Knowledge skill, or bargain, command, con, investigation, persuasion. In addition, for each die in form 6, the Jedi counts as being one step closer to his target when using any force power that is modified by relationship. An acquaintance counts as a friend, for example.

I do, however, like the idea that a form 6 user could use the time he saves to advance any discipline, rather than just social/political pursuits. So he could be a fighter pilot, or a doctor/healer, or a "Jedi scholar" or whatever. Of course the trade off is that the advancement of form 6 costs twice as much as regular lightsaber yet provides no additional bonus/technique to improve the character's combat prowess (he will slightly lag behind a form 1 user in terms of overall potential, but will have a wider breadth of knowledge).

[CRMcNeill]