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Jedi and slugthrowers, railguns, firearms, etc...
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Son of Fire
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I look at it this way Volar…
The sabre blade is supposed to be pure energy right? A blaster bolt is also energy, and from what we have seen on film the only thing that a sabre can’t cut through is energy (other sabre blades, blaster bolts, energy fields, etc.) so the refection is probably an energy + energy interaction that results in refection of the lesser energy (pretty much everything is “lesser” to a sabre).
Now a bullet is a solid projectile, and again from what we have seen on film sabres just slice through (while heating) solid matter (stomries, blast doors, AT-AT armour, etc.). So it would seem to me that a bullet would be no different in that aspect.

Now I do think a Jedi has the ability to hit a bullet with their sabre, but that does not seem to be the problem. The problem would be the heated shrapnel still flying at the Jedi after they connected with the projectile. Sure its trajectory would be off, seeing that it would have encountered the sabre in its path, but still the particles would be present and traveling in the general direction as a hazard to anyone hit.
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Maximilian Bernas
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blaster bolts seem to fly slower than high velocity lead projectiles. At least it would appear so from watching the movies.
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Ray
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blaster Bolts are very much Subsonic rounds... Most Projectile weapons are Supersonic.

Thus, Blaster Bolts are slower, and more easily deflected.

Despite that, it's unlikely there'd be enough mass remaining from a Projectile after flying through a Lightsabre to really affect the Jedi.

The *HEAT* from said melting orb, on the other hand...

And, if you hit a Jedi with a big enough round...

Might I suggest some of Corel & DuVal's fine 75mm Mass Drivers? Stylish and Functional!!! Act now, and get a free reload of Mass Driver Bolts absolutely free!!! Very Happy
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Son of Fire
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there would be enough of the round left Ray.
I mean, from what we can tell the sabre has monomolecular cutting edge, if not thinner. So its not like a great deal of the bullet would be destroyed upon hitting the blade.
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Volar the Healer
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Esoomian wrote:
...a blaster shot is superheated gas contained in a magnetic field...


I am unaware of any definitive example that this is so. A magnetic field, crushing blaster (tibanna) gas to expel a burst of particles at a high rate of speed also accounts for the technobabble often spouted in sourcebooks and after market 'technical manuals'. But this would make basters particle beam weapons.

The term 'blaster' goes back to the 1940's to the lensmen series of sci-fi, where it was used to describe particle beam weapons. At least that's the oldest use of the term I've found. The term blaster has been used in this way in several other sci-fi books as well - and Mr. Lucas has said he's a big fan of the old of sci-fi.

The idea that a blaster bolt is 'contained within a magnetic field' as it flies to it's target would require something to generate and maintain this field once it was away from the weapon...an energy cocoon wrapped around a projectile. I've heard nothing to indicate this is how blasters work, either. A similiar explanation was attempted is some books to explain Chewbacca's laser crossbow, but this explanation was soon set aside.

A simpler explanation for how these weapons may work can be found just watching the movies; Blasters are not projectile or laser weapons because the movie effects are not consistant with the visuals these weapons create. The movie visuals ARE consistant in every way with a particle beam weapon. There is no evidence in the movies of a magnetic effect to blaster fire (they do not veer to hit droids or other large masses of metal, they do not disrupt electronics, etc). At this point I apply Occam's razor.

So, I am convinced blasters are some kind of particle beam weapon. That's the best 'movie' answer I can give. If that's not good enough, Any other explanation would require me to break out math.

I have no idea how Jedi deflect particle beam (pulses) {Yeah I know, It's the Force}. But, since in the movie they can, they should easily be able to deflect bullets in the same way.
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Volar the Healer
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Son of Fire wrote:
...from what we have seen on film the only thing that a sabre can’t cut through is energy (other sabre blades, blaster bolts, energy fields, etc.) so the refection is probably an energy + energy interaction that results in refection of the lesser energy (pretty much everything is “lesser” to a sabre).
Now a bullet is a solid projectile, and again from what we have seen on film sabres just slice through (while heating) solid matter (stomries, blast doors, AT-AT armour, etc.). So it would seem to me that a bullet would be no different in that aspect.


That sounds reasonable. I'll think about it.
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Son of Fire
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a prob Volar.
I just tried to look at it in a very simplistic way, much like how I think the filmmakers did. I’m fairly sure they did not bust out the math and such just to figure out the properties of a sabre. They just had it operate in the fashion of their choosing, and I just tried to work with what onscreen evidence I saw.

I think Esoo was using the tech guide for his definition of blaster operation. And we all know how much Lucas sticks with continuity.
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Esoomian
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I was using the tech guide

Basically I was just using my understanding of how WEG described blasters to formulate a hypothesis...

I could make arguments about SW having few ferrous metals and superior electronics but SoF's energy + energy argument works just as well and doesn't require us to break out the maths so I'll switch to that one 8)
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Son of Fire
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks mang.
Well I pretty much tried to look at it like how Lucas would…for some reason I felt that Greedo should shoot first too…go fig. Laughing Wink
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Esoomian
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well when you try to turn a movie into an RPG there are going to be some complications as movies don't have to explain exerything but RPG players can be quite creative in thier used of 'background scenery'
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Volar the Healer
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Son of Fire wrote:
I just tried to look at it in a very simplistic way, much like how I think the filmmakers did...They just had it operate in the fashion of their choosing, and I just tried to work with what onscreen evidence I saw.


OK. I've thought about it. The fragments of melted bullets after deflecting off a lightsaber will not harm a Jedi in the same way molten metal from a contiuously melting blast door does not harm a Jedi while he slowly melts through the door.
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Rathe Ehtar
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer the question, NO.
NO, NO, NO. It states that, abbreviated of course, that a lightsaber can deflect blaster bolts. Blaster bolts, not slugs, not lead pipes, not rocks, blaster bolts. It may be cool to say, "that vending machine is coming at me, better cut the thing in half and have the two pieces fall the either side of me..." Yes very cool. But one does not say the same for a bullet. A jedi would dodge, rather than recklessly block with his lightsaber.

If you do, 1) the bullet continues and hits you at super speeds and super temperatures, 2) the bullet is disintigrated, 3) you decide.

If you have to think about it longer than ten seconds then dodge. Afterall, the punk got a gun, you got a lightsaber that you can throw, but that's another thread entirely.
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Jace_Terrik
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 8:09 pm    Post subject: "No, Neo. When you're ready. You wont *have* to." Reply with quote

Jedi can sense attacks before they happen. Jedi can use TK to stop the bullets. Jedi are super-kick-@$$-characters.

"Do I make myself clear, Lord Vader?" Twisted Evil
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Son of Fire wrote:
I tend to be of the school that solid projectiles are the “equalizers” for non-Force users. I tend to think that at that velocity and with the kinetic energy that a round is packing that a Jedi with a sabre is going to get hit with something…whether or not he slices it.
Still, its not like they could not avoid harm some other way, they do have the Force after all. I would hardly think it unfeasible that they could use TK in some fashion to redirect incoming fire or just plain stop it in it’s tracks.


I feel the same way. Especially as many of my characters USE Firearms just for that purpopse (that plus even if they do parry it there is no reflection back to me! Razz Razz Razz )

Personally, when i gm, i allow them to parry the bullet/slug but they still might have to worry about the hot lead. As to shotgun blasts or rapid fire like from an SMG, then they best be dodging!

Now to spur on more thought...

DID this against 3 jedi (dark) so far. I will let you know what the gm did after i see some responses.

One jedi in the party goes toe to toe with the dj, while the rest of us hold of the storm commando's. He falls quickly (sucky parry roll), as do the commando's. Most of the rest of the party get dropped from having their blaster bolts reflected back at them. I am left standing with the DJ.
I first off, fire a round from my Kevlarlik disuader (a slugthrower). he parrys the ceramic bullet with ease....
I then toss a knife at him, which he cuts in two.
Then i empty the pouch of gunpowder in his direction. The gm had him react the same way (ls in the way)...
What would happen????
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