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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| JT Swift wrote: | | Quote: | | Have you considered broadening the description of this version of Combat Sense to allow it to be used in other forms of combat? |
Well I let them use it for all non-vehicle combat. For vehicle combat I use a variation of the Force Powers listed in the Star Warriors starfighter combat game. |
An idea that I had for my own version of LSC was to cap the character's Sense bonus at whatever the character's skill level is in the combat skill he is using, with a minimum bonus of 2D if the character's skill level is not high enough or if he doesn't have that skill at all. For instance, a character with a Sense of 5D and a Lightsaber of 6D may add his full Sense dice to Lightsaber for combat rolls. However, if he has a Blaster of 4D, he may only add 4D Sense to Blaster, and if he needs to throw a grenade, but does not have the Grenade skill, his bonus is capped at 2D. This allows the character to still benefit from the enhancement of the Force, but requires him to put work into his practical skills along with his Force skills.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | An idea that I had for my own version of LSC was to cap the character's Sense bonus at whatever the character's skill level is in the combat skill he is using, with a minimum bonus of 2D if the character's skill level is not high enough or if he doesn't have that skill at all...if he needs to throw a grenade, but does not have the Grenade skill, his bonus is capped at 2D. |
According to the RAW his grenade skill defaults to his DEX attribute. Are you doing some House variant that treats skills that have not advanced above the attribute base differently than skills that are above attribute base? |
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Matthias777
Commodore
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 1835
Location: North Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | According to the RAW his grenade skill defaults to his DEX attribute. Are you doing some House variant that treats skills that have not advanced above the attribute base differently than skills that are above attribute base? |
Given his example, it's my understanding that the only house rule in question here is his house rule for Lightsaber Combat. Normally, Lightsaber Combat allows a character to add the total of their Sense skill dice to their Lightsaber skill. His house rule for Lightsaber Combat extends Lightsaber Combat to all non-vehicular combat skills, which means that they may---if using Lightsaber Combat---add their Sense skill dice to any non-vehicular combat skill rolls (Blaster, Melee Weapons, etc.) to hit. To ensure that players don't just ramp up Sense and ignore advancement in their base skills (again, Blaster, Melee Weapons, etc.), his house rule for Lightsaber Combat also stipulates that the Sense skill bonus is capped at 2D if the combat skill being augmented has not been raised above the base attribute.
Crmcneill, please correct me if I have interpreted your post incorrectly.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Matthias777 wrote: | | Crmcneill, please correct me if I have interpreted your post incorrectly. |
No, you got it dead on. The idea is that, while the Force does provide advantages even when a character is not skilled with a given weapon, the best results are found when a character combines the intuitive guidance of the Force with practical combat training.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | The idea is that, while the Force does provide advantages even when a character is not skilled with a given weapon, the best results are found when a character combines the intuitive guidance of the Force with practical combat training. |
Thanks for clarifying. It seems odd to me (and needlessly complicated) that a character with a poor natural dexterity of DEX 2D and 2D additional of skill increase benefits more from using the Force than a character with a great natural dexterity of DEX 4D and 0D additional skill. But hey, it is your rule mod. |
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Matthias777
Commodore
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
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Location: North Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Thanks for clarifying. It seems odd to me (and needlessly complicated) that a character with a poor natural dexterity of DEX 2D and 2D additional of skill increase benefits more from using the Force than a character with a great natural dexterity of DEX 4D and 0D additional skill. But hey, it is your rule mod. |
I was thinking about this as well. Not quite for the same reasons, though. I like crmcneill's reasoning, but I dislike flat caps (e.g. - "no matter what the skill level, the cap is THIS amount"). I prefer them to scale, if the scaling method is simple enough that it can be done on the fly (you shouldn't need a calculator or even a pencil and paper to scale things; if you do, you've made your rules too complicated...IMHO). So instead of a flat 2D cap for the bonus given, I'd say that if the base combat skill is unimproved over the base attribute, then the character can only apply half of his Sense skill dice to augment the base combat skill. Some people will still see this as too complicated, and I get that, but that's my take on it.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:48 am Post subject: |
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I think crmcniel's reasoning is that combat sense is already a flat +2D bonus. This house rule creates an opportunity to allow a bigger bonus based on skill with the weapon in use.
The only problem I have with folding lightsaber combat into the combat sense power is that it cheapens the significance of the lightsaber. For example, now that everything is all one power, can a character use any weapon (say, an electro staff, for example) to block a blaster bolt? And if not, why not? If so, then there's no real reason to put a bunch of dice into lightsaber. Might as well just go with melee combat/parry and that way you can use ANYTHING to avoid getting shot.
The other reason I favor having a power for LSC is that the Jedi actually has to create a connection with his lightsaber when he creates it. It is actually an exercise that brings the Jedi closer to the Force. Therefore, it makes sense to me that the lightsaber would prove to be a better weapon 1) in the hands of a Jedi than in someone else's hands (even another non-Jedi Force user) and 2) a better choice for a Jedi, since the lightsaber is somewhat of a conduit for the Jedi's Force use (especially in combat). |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | The idea is that, while the Force does provide advantages even when a character is not skilled with a given weapon, the best results are found when a character combines the intuitive guidance of the Force with practical combat training. |
Thanks for clarifying. It seems odd to me (and needlessly complicated) that a character with a poor natural dexterity of DEX 2D and 2D additional of skill increase benefits more from using the Force than a character with a great natural dexterity of DEX 4D and 0D additional skill. But hey, it is your rule mod. |
Sorry, I left that part out, too. In my current rule mod, the minimum bonus is a flat +2D either way, so that in your example, both characters would still receive a +2D bonus. Only when the actual skill improves to 2D+1 or higher would the bonus go up.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | I think crmcniel's reasoning is that combat sense is already a flat +2D bonus. This house rule creates an opportunity to allow a bigger bonus based on skill with the weapon in use.
The only problem I have with folding lightsaber combat into the combat sense power is that it cheapens the significance of the lightsaber. For example, now that everything is all one power, can a character use any weapon (say, an electro staff, for example) to block a blaster bolt? And if not, why not? If so, then there's no real reason to put a bunch of dice into lightsaber. Might as well just go with melee combat/parry and that way you can use ANYTHING to avoid getting shot. |
All good points. As far as lightsabers, don't forget that only lightsabers allow the Jedi to redirect blaster bolts, and only lightsabers and a few other rare metals can do so without taking damage from said blaster bolt. Joruus C'baoth did, after all, TK a rock to intercept the path of a blaster bolt, even though the rock didn't survive the encounter.
That being said, I wouldn't mind finding some way to make a lightsaber the best possible fit to an upgraded form of Combat Sense. However, JT Swift's idea of making the lightsaber inflict Str+5D damage with no cap seems like a pretty good upgrade to me.
| Quote: | | The other reason I favor having a power for LSC is that the Jedi actually has to create a connection with his lightsaber when he creates it. It is actually an exercise that brings the Jedi closer to the Force. Therefore, it makes sense to me that the lightsaber would prove to be a better weapon 1) in the hands of a Jedi than in someone else's hands (even another non-Jedi Force user) and 2) a better choice for a Jedi, since the lightsaber is somewhat of a conduit for the Jedi's Force use (especially in combat). |
But creating a connection to something via the Force while in the process of constructing it would not necessarily be exclusive to lightsabers.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: |
But creating a connection to something via the Force while in the process of constructing it would not necessarily be exclusive to lightsabers. |
True. My point was just to illustrate that the lightsaber (or whatever single weapon) is supposed to be special to a Jedi. Allowing other weapons to approach its effectiveness via a generic combat power still robs it of its significance, I think. My opinion, for what it's worth. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | But creating a connection to something via the Force while in the process of constructing it would not necessarily be exclusive to lightsabers. |
True. My point was just to illustrate that the lightsaber (or whatever single weapon) is supposed to be special to a Jedi. Allowing other weapons to approach its effectiveness via a generic combat power still robs it of its significance, I think. My opinion, for what it's worth. |
A valid point. I'm open to suggestions as to how this power could be modified to allow a lightsaber to maintain its primacy.
As an aside, I've had this vague idea of allowing Jedi a power called Craft, which allows them to construct a small object with amazing precision. It's limited to personal items, such as lightsabers and other weapons, or even something like a personal shield generator. An item constructed in this fashion would be extremely reliable (requiring almost no maintenace), would hold a power charge far longer than a similar mundane item, and might even reduce Force power difficulties if a FS owner attempts to use Force skills on it (for example, a Jedi trying to TK his lightsaber back into his hand would roll Alter at one difficulty level lower because the object in question has a connection to the Force).
I figure it is something that might take a while to perform, so it would probably have to happen between missions, and maybe cost a Force Point (so that the Jedi isn't tinkering around and making Force-enhanced datapads in his spare time).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| I like it. |
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JT Swift
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 132
Location: Austin Texas
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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As for lightsabre's being the weapon of choice for Combat Sense I let the players harmonize with the crystal in their lightsabre. This gives them an instinctive sense of where the sabre's blade is at any point [in much the same way that you know exactly where you finger is in relation to your knee]. [See the novel "Shatterpoint" for a detailed description of sabre harmonization.]
In game terms this requires some very high control rolls that can be made easier with several days of meditation. This is why it takes months for some Jedi to build a sabre. Construction isn't all that hard. But harmonization can take more then a month.
Once tuned into that sabre crystal they get a +1D whenever they use combat sense with THAT specific sabre. So that's something that can't be done with ranged weapons [or weapons that have no crystal].
Also I see the Sabre as a weapon to discipline the mind. Its not supposed to be easier then a blaster. Its supposed to force the Jedi to look every person in the eye before they end their life. No faceless sniping from 100 meters away. This is up close and personal, and the blood spray can literally end up on their hands. A Jedi using a sabre never forgets that he's ending a person's life.
As a side note I also dropped that base difficulty for HITTING someone with a sabre down to 15. I can't think of a single reason why hitting someone with a lightsabre should be harder then most other melee weapons. However a roll of 10 or less still results in the user taking 5D damage. Its easy, but its very dangerous.
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