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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16174
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Fallon Kell wrote: | | If you wanted a Juggernaut to be remotely maneuverable, it would probably need an articulated body... |
Doesn't each wheel turn independently of the others? |
It does. IIRC, the key issue for the Juggernaut in turning was that the crews in each cockpit had to coordinate to make a smooth turn. However, by upgrading to repulsorlift from wheels, it would eliminate a lot of that awkwardness (and possibly even the need for a rear cockpit)
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Bren wrote: | | Fallon Kell wrote: | | If you wanted a Juggernaut to be remotely maneuverable, it would probably need an articulated body... |
Doesn't each wheel turn independently of the others? |
It does. IIRC, the key issue for the Juggernaut in turning was that the crews in each cockpit had to coordinate to make a smooth turn. However, by upgrading to repulsorlift from wheels, it would eliminate a lot of that awkwardness (and possibly even the need for a rear cockpit) |
Haha, I love the Juggernaught. Lets build a 50 m tank on wheels, and then put an actual person in a look out position on a long mast...  I mean, why trust sensors and stuff when you can have a guy climbing 15m on rungs instead...
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Haha, I love the Juggernaught. Lets build a 50 m tank on wheels, and then put an actual person in a look out position on a long mast... I mean, why trust sensors and stuff when you can have a guy climbing 15m on rungs instead... |
I wonder if 21st century tank commanders still ride around with their head sticking out of the turret hatch?
Personally I love the Empire having huge (but unwieldy armored) vehicles. If I wanted nimble repulsor tanks, I'd be playing Hammer's Slammers. I want ground shaking vehicles that are big enough to crush the opposition in their path and that those Rebel scum can hear from 5 KM away. Helps put the fear of the Imperial Military into their disloyal, alien-loving hearts.  |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16174
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Haha, I love the Juggernaught. Lets build a 50 m tank on wheels, and then put an actual person in a look out position on a long mast... I mean, why trust sensors and stuff when you can have a guy climbing 15m on rungs instead... |
Exactly! There is a lot of good tech SWU that gets ruined by doing something outrageous. Having a sensor pod on a mast is actually an idea in use with various modern militaries, allowing the vehicle in question a wider sensor horizon, as well as the ability to scan past a hill or other vertical obstruction without exposing itself to fire. Of course, having it manned was a drawback, but at least in the ImpSB the ladder was enclosed. I guess Lucas & Co. decided the enclosed sensor mast wasn't ridiculous enough when they co-opted the Juggernaut for ROTS...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16174
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | I wonder if 21st century tank commanders still ride around with their head sticking out of the turret hatch? |
It's my understanding that they do. Apparently the tank optics are fine for anti-vehicle combat, but against a regular force, the risks of having one's head sticking up out of the hatch are outweighed by the benefits of being able to scan visually.
And I seem to recall Danny Pritchard in the Slammers series preferring to ride with his head out the hatch, despite the extremely capable sensor systems that equipped Hammer's tanks.
| Quote: | | Personally I love the Empire having huge (but unwieldy armored) vehicles. If I wanted nimble repulsor tanks, I'd be playing Hammer's Slammers. I want ground shaking vehicles that are big enough to crush the opposition in their path and that those Rebel scum can hear from 5 KM away. Helps put the fear of the Imperial Military into their disloyal, alien-loving hearts. |
That's the way I'm leaning. I think the Empire would only have tanks as scouts and outriders for the larger assault vehicles, as AT-STs do for AT-ATs.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | It's my understanding that they do. Apparently the tank optics are fine for anti-vehicle combat, but against a regular force, the risks of having one's head sticking up out of the hatch are outweighed by the benefits of being able to scan visually.
And I seem to recall Danny Pritchard in the Slammers series preferring to ride with his head out the hatch, despite the extremely capable sensor systems that equipped Hammer's tanks. |
Most of the tank commanders do. But Drake really pitches that as a human reaction/personal preference rather than real efficiency. Which is clear in The Warrior. The Achilles like Slick Des Grieux is probably one of the best tankers and he happily uses the sensors rather than rely on his eyesight. Also mentioned in the story with the repair sergeant who knows how to use the sensors and tank AI better then the tank crew does.
In Star Wars, it actually seems that the sensors are often not much better than Mark I eyeballs.  |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16174
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | In Star Wars, it actually seems that the sensors are often not much better than Mark I eyeballs. :D |
True. I wonder if there is a technobabble fix for that? Maybe a holographic HUD system that allows a character to "see" things at great distances, when its actually a holographic magnification of the view from their vehicles sensors...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Bren wrote: | | In Star Wars, it actually seems that the sensors are often not much better than Mark I eyeballs. |
True. I wonder if there is a technobabble fix for that? Maybe a holographic HUD system that allows a character to "see" things at great distances, when its actually a holographic magnification of the view from their vehicles sensors... |
If you get laser surgery, does that mean you have Mk. II eyeballs?
Anyhow, as advanced as modern sensors are, they all generally do things different from what eyes do because eyes are freaking amazing sensors.
A camera array that had all the capabilities of a pair of human eyes would probably be the size of a pair of basketballs at least, be fragile and glitch-prone, and require more processing power to use than any single computer available in the world today.
In the SW universe, these limitations may not be so extreme, but the quality of a good human body over technology is a recurring theme in Star Wars. (Clone troopers beat droids, Luke beats Vader, Ewoks beat walkers.)
Things like the bubble canopy on a Z-95 and the massive transparisteel view ports in Star Destroyers are not just for show. A tank generally doesn't have these things. It has tiny little periscopes that you can see out of, and they're handy for finding other tanks without having your head forcibly removed, but almost worthless for discovering a special forces soldier affixing bombs to your vehicle.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:32 am Post subject: |
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I had a thought about an upgraded Juggernaut. The Empire has a thing for modular vehicles, but has all these different drive types available for their vehicles (wheels, treads, hover, walker, repulsorlift), so it's logical to assume that all of these different drive types have their uses (probably based on environmental factors). So, here's what I'm thinking:
1). Remove the middle wheel on either side and replace it with a ground level hatch/ramp system for the Juggernaut's troop complement. It would allow them to ingress/egress more smoothly, as well as reducing their exposure to incoming fire.
2). Replace the remaining eight wheels with modular pods (one at each corner). The pods would contain either A). a repulsorlift system, B). a tank tread, or C). A tandem dual-wheel-set. An air-cushion Juggernaut might even be possible, but would likely need to include a large plenum chamber under the vehicle's main body, with the modular pods containing fan nacelles used to pressurize the air cushion.
The result is a single, mass-produced heavy assault vehicle that can be easily modified from one type of drive to another, depending on environmental requirements. This modification could occur either at the factory level (i.e. one generic body type that has a specific drive system permanently attached when it leaves the factory) or in the field (same generic body type that can swap out propulsion modes as needed with a little time in the shop). It doesn't replace the AT-AT, but it certainly fills any roles that the AT-AT may not.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:09 am Post subject: |
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I like it, although I wonder whether an ACV the size of a juggernaut is possible... That's a lot of weight for an air cushion to support. Also, it may need additional maneuvering support of some kind. If you thought a wheeled juggernaut was hard to turn, just let it ride on air!
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | I like it, although I wonder whether an ACV the size of a juggernaut is possible... That's a lot of weight for an air cushion to support. Also, it may need additional maneuvering support of some kind. If you thought a wheeled juggernaut was hard to turn, just let it ride on air! |
I used the reasoning behind the supertanks of Hammer's Slammers, in that all you need is sufficient power and high enough tech. The thing would be a monster, though. The footprint of the plenum chamber would have to be huge, easily the area of the entire vehicle, if not larger. I mostly just threw it in as a possibility.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Azai
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:23 am Post subject: |
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In Star Wars, it actually seems that the sensors are often not much better than Mark I eyeballs. |
I actually really like this. For a while I was trying to square with star wars not using gadgets that in the 21st we would have. But after a while I really enjoyed thinking that star wars in World I/II but in space. With certain tech being really advanced and some lots being not.
I also look at Russia today, from exchange students I've spoken with, if you go about fifty miles from Moscow or St. Peterburg you could up in the 18th or 19th century in regards to tech and the usage of it. So I kinda apply this to star wars. Far from Corsucant very low tech, or perhaps wide-spread usage.
Plus sensor scans just ruin all the fun sneaking around |
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| If you take a look at most of the examples of sensor tech in the equipment compilation, they can't detect through rough terrain. So someone who's not in a hurry to get where they're going could use rocky terrain to sneak their way around and not be detected. Most of the hand-held sensors also have trouble penetrating dense matter such as rock or metal. |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | If you take a look at most of the examples of sensor tech in the equipment compilation, they can't detect through rough terrain. So someone who's not in a hurry to get where they're going could use rocky terrain to sneak their way around and not be detected. Most of the hand-held sensors also have trouble penetrating dense matter such as rock or metal. |
Can you please point this out for me. I have a 'tech' character with a portable life form scanner and a rather high 'sensors' skill.. The sensor have a 300 m range. Even though I assume this is under optimal conditions, some guidelines for supoptimal conditions would be nice..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Another thought for my modular Juggernaut idea: the internal configuration (and mission) could be modular as well...
In the ROTS Incredible Cross-Sections book, it mentions that the Juggernaut can carry between 50-300 troops internally, depending on the configuration. So that got me thinking about possible configurations, all based on the same chassis:
-Assault - Standard Juggernaut w/ heavy weapons & 50 troops.
-Command - Juggernaut modified with extra comm and scanners, as well as the armored command pod from the Mobile Command Base, and space for 10 troops to provide security for the commander
-Transport - Light weapons only, with a large modular internal bay that can be equipped to haul cargo or up to 300 passengers (with some modification). Scan tower replaced with a crane, and the cargo bay has a large dorsal hatch for loading and unloading of cargo.
-Artillery - Transport variant that replaces the cargo bay & crane with a heavy support weapon.
-Maintenance / Recovery - Transport variant that replaces the cargo bay with a workshop and spare parts storage. Also includes auxiliary repulsorlift pods that can be attached to a disabled vehicle for towing.
And unless otherwise noted, all variants are equipped with the spotting tower, but it is now automated and controlled by remote from within the vehicle, and is retractable down to hull level if necessary.
Combined with the modular drive system, the result is a single vehicle chassis that can be modified as needed to fit specific mission and environment types. In addition, maintenance, repairs and fuel supplies are simplified due to commonality of components, and vehicle crews will require minimal training when switching between models.
Thoughts? I suppose I could start working on stats for these, but the only real difference would be in the performance stats, and maybe the weaponry...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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