| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
|
 Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:31 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| ZzaphodD wrote: | Can you please point this out for me. I have a 'tech' character with a portable life form scanner and a rather high 'sensors' skill.. The sensor have a 300 m range. Even though I assume this is under optimal conditions, some guidelines for supoptimal conditions would be nice..  |
I would be happy to!
| Page 99 - First Entry: General Purpose Scanner wrote: | Game Notes: Able to scan to a range of 1,500 meters (though more than 1 meter of rock or metal blocks it). It can detect movement, find life forms and monitor comlink signals. Scanning for life forms or comm. signals requires a Difficult sensors roll. Device gives a +1D bonus to search rolls.
|
End of Page 103 Beginning of 104: Focused Uni-Direction
Sensor Dish wrote: | | Has a maximum range of 10 kilometers. Can only provide information on a small focused area: 100 meters wide by 100 meters long by 20 meters high, adding +2D to the user’s sensors skill to identify targets only. However, this sensor provides no bonus in rough, hilly, mountainous, cluttered urban or other terrains that targets could use obstacles to hide behind. |
| Page 104 - Second Entry:Omni-Directional Sensor Globe wrote: | Game Notes: Scans in a 20 kilometer radius in all directions
(including into the atmosphere). Adds +1D to the user’s sensors skill to detect targets only. However, this sensor provides no bonus in rough, hilly, mountainous, cluttered urban or other terrains that targets could use obstacles to hide behind. |
The last 3 are sensor systems that are buildings in an installation, now if a 13,000 credit building can't penetrate rock, then I don't see any reason why a 600 or 700 credit portable unit could. There is an installation that can manage to scan heavy terrain, however it costs nearly 20,000 credits, and has a limited range of 5km. Something to keep in mind is that sensors can be rolled against by an opposing sneak.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, on topic of the craft that relies on sensors to do it's seeing, It is very cheap to get a sensor jammer on a starship, there's no reason why your sensor heavy juggernaut couldn't be rendered blind and deaf by a thousand credits or so, making it useless. There's no reason that someone may just set up their sensor building to emit a broadband jamming signal and stop those troop carriers from being able to travel anywhere. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| crmcneill wrote: | | Fallon Kell wrote: | | I like it, although I wonder whether an ACV the size of a juggernaut is possible... That's a lot of weight for an air cushion to support. Also, it may need additional maneuvering support of some kind. If you thought a wheeled juggernaut was hard to turn, just let it ride on air! |
I used the reasoning behind the supertanks of Hammer's Slammers, in that all you need is sufficient power and high enough tech. The thing would be a monster, though. The footprint of the plenum chamber would have to be huge, easily the area of the entire vehicle, if not larger. I mostly just threw it in as a possibility. |
Just imagine the sound of that thing coming towards you! It'd be like an angry F5 Tornado!
_________________
Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
Complete Starship Construction System |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Raven Redstar wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | Can you please point this out for me. I have a 'tech' character with a portable life form scanner and a rather high 'sensors' skill.. The sensor have a 300 m range. Even though I assume this is under optimal conditions, some guidelines for supoptimal conditions would be nice.. |
I would be happy to!
| Page 99 - First Entry: General Purpose Scanner wrote: | Game Notes: Able to scan to a range of 1,500 meters (though more than 1 meter of rock or metal blocks it). It can detect movement, find life forms and monitor comlink signals. Scanning for life forms or comm. signals requires a Difficult sensors roll. Device gives a +1D bonus to search rolls.
|
End of Page 103 Beginning of 104: Focused Uni-Direction
Sensor Dish wrote: | | Has a maximum range of 10 kilometers. Can only provide information on a small focused area: 100 meters wide by 100 meters long by 20 meters high, adding +2D to the user’s sensors skill to identify targets only. However, this sensor provides no bonus in rough, hilly, mountainous, cluttered urban or other terrains that targets could use obstacles to hide behind. |
| Page 104 - Second Entry:Omni-Directional Sensor Globe wrote: | Game Notes: Scans in a 20 kilometer radius in all directions
(including into the atmosphere). Adds +1D to the user’s sensors skill to detect targets only. However, this sensor provides no bonus in rough, hilly, mountainous, cluttered urban or other terrains that targets could use obstacles to hide behind. |
The last 3 are sensor systems that are buildings in an installation, now if a 13,000 credit building can't penetrate rock, then I don't see any reason why a 600 or 700 credit portable unit could. There is an installation that can manage to scan heavy terrain, however it costs nearly 20,000 credits, and has a limited range of 5km. Something to keep in mind is that sensors can be rolled against by an opposing sneak.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, on topic of the craft that relies on sensors to do it's seeing, It is very cheap to get a sensor jammer on a starship, there's no reason why your sensor heavy juggernaut couldn't be rendered blind and deaf by a thousand credits or so, making it useless. There's no reason that someone may just set up their sensor building to emit a broadband jamming signal and stop those troop carriers from being able to travel anywhere. |
Its the General Purpose Scanner that is used by the character.. The life form indicator scanner seems to replace the search skill in many places.. (when the characters suspect an ambush). A 6D Sensors skill with the +1D bonus picks up the stealthiest Storm Commando.. 
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ZzaphodD, I wonder if you could take advantage of those line of sight limitations, and possibly also use sensor-masking armor?
_________________
Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
Complete Starship Construction System |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Azai
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Posts: 248
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wow, Raven I love the information you just provided. It really makes the adventure I will design a lot better.
Now people can actually have hidden bases if they are in cliffs, or underground ;P |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm really not sure about the canonicity of those stats. Imagine the conversation:
"General, there's a fleet of Star Destroyers coming out of hyperspace in Sector 4"
"Sector 4? That's only 10 kilometers away. Good thing they didn't jump out of hyperspace behind that medium sized boulder over there, or we never would've seen them."
We have radar in existence now that can scan subterranean targets dozens of meters down. The CIA demonstrated it back in the '70's by mapping the underground aquifers of the Nile in Egypt. And that was from space. IMO, while these stats show promise (and the omniprobe a great deal of ingenuity), they are far too primitive to represent what a the tech of a space-travel society could produce.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| crmcneill wrote: | I'm really not sure about the canonicity of those stats. Imagine the conversation:
"General, there's a fleet of Star Destroyers coming out of hyperspace in Sector 4"
"Sector 4? That's only 10 kilometers away. Good thing they didn't jump out of hyperspace behind that medium sized boulder over there, or we never would've seen them."
We have radar in existence now that can scan subterranean targets dozens of meters down. The CIA demonstrated it back in the '70's by mapping the underground aquifers of the Nile in Egypt. And that was from space. IMO, while these stats show promise (and the omniprobe a great deal of ingenuity), they are far too primitive to represent what a the tech of a space-travel society could produce. |
Ground-penetrating Radar is an awfully specialized sensor, and some types of sensors just have maximum ranges, too. IR, for example, might not see an ISD at 10 miles, even though it's a gigantic, sky-filling, unmistakeable spacecraft in the visible light spectrum at that range.
You did make me laugh, though at the mental image of an ISD hiding behind a medium-sized boulder.
_________________
Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
Complete Starship Construction System |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Fallon Kell wrote: | | Ground-penetrating Radar is an awfully specialized sensor, and some types of sensors just have maximum ranges, too. IR, for example, might not see an ISD at 10 miles, even though it's a gigantic, sky-filling, unmistakeable spacecraft in the visible light spectrum at that range. |
True, but sensors in the SWU are generally not so specific. A Full-Spectrum Transceiver is capable of active or passive detection across the entire electromagnetic spectrum, on top of which we have crystal gravfield traps and dedicated energy receptors and who knows what else. With all of that input, even if some facets of a sensor are blocked, others won't be.
It's not that I believe all SWU sensors should be able to see straight through solid rock. IMO, sensors should be more of a story-telling effect than something that requires stats. Either sensors detect an incoming enemy and give you time to mount an effective defense, or they don't, and you get hit with a surprise attack. Either sensors detect nothing, and the enemy ship slips away into space (as part of the plot), or sensors detect the ship and the chase is on.
Throwing in specific ranges like 10 kilometers is just asking for a dispute, as it doesn't cover things like atmospheric or terrain conditions, never mind the fact that sensor range and sensitivity in a science fiction universe can reasonably be expected to be more effective than sensors which exist in the real world today.
| Quote: | | You did make me laugh, though at the mental image of an ISD hiding behind a medium-sized boulder. |
Glad you liked. It made me laugh when I was writing it, but sometimes amusing absurdity is the best way to make a point...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So, I was looking at the vehicle section in the ImpSB and I got to thinking that, size-wise, a lot of the vehicles listed really should be Walker-Scale, not Speeder. Based on size alone, if the AT-ST is the lower end of Walker Scale, then the Hoverscout and the Mobile Command base are certainly large enough to be included. The Compact Assault Vehicle and the Command Speeder are somewhat borderline, and the Repulsorlift Sled is a definite candidate to stay at Speeder-Scale.
IIRC, didn't 1E barely even bother with scales? If anyone has a copy of the 1E Imp Sourcebook, I'd be interested to see if they even bothered with scale differentiation on the stats (I'm pretty sure they didn't). It might even simplify things greatly for gameplay if the scale steps of Speeder, Walker and Starfighter were just folded into a single "vehicle" category...
EDIT: Maybe the smaller Speeder-Scale vehicles like swoops and speeder bikes could be given a +2D bonus to Body Strength and have them at Character-Scale.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TyCaine
Captain
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 514
Location: Florida, US
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The copy of the ImpSB 1stEdition I have lists all vehicles with appropriate scales:
Juggernaught as Walker
CAV as Speeder
Mobile Command Base as Speeder
And so on and so forth. In fact, about the only difference in stats is the 'Speed Code' instead of 'Move' and less stats for weapons...
T.C. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Point taken. But my idea still stands. With speeder scale only being a difference of +2D, some of the armored combat vehicles are ridiculously weak on body scale. The Hoverscout's Body Strength of 3D (+2D scale modifier vs. Character scale weaponry) means that a Wookiee is just as resistant to damage as an armored scout vehicle. And that's just one example...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| crmcneill wrote: | | The Hoverscout's Body Strength of 3D (+2D scale modifier vs. Character scale weaponry) means that a Wookiee is just as resistant to damage as an armored scout vehicle. |
I always assumed the hoverscout is like a jeep with a .50 MG, i.e. really not armored but fairly well armed.
But, nitpicky points aside, you are correct. Some folks have argued that the 2E scaling using die caps actually gives a better differentiation between vehicles and characters - those the die caps encode more information that just small, medium, and large sizes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bren wrote: | | I always assumed the hoverscout is like a jeep with a .50 MG, i.e. really not armored but fairly well armed. |
It's a reasonable assumption, but the closer one gets, the more disparities become apparent. It's armament more closely resembles the AT-ST, with the addition of transport space for a few infantry. Size-wise, the hoverscout actually takes up more volume than the AT-ST. It always seemed to me that WEG was very arbitrary on deciding what was Walker-scale and what was Speeder-scale, almost as if anything that was a Walker was Walker-scale by default, just because it was a Walker.
| Quote: | | But, nitpicky points aside, you are correct. Some folks have argued that the 2E scaling using die caps actually gives a better differentiation between vehicles and characters - those the die caps encode more information that just small, medium, and large sizes. |
I haven't looked at it in detail, but I can see the point. All the 2E stats were designed (more or less) to fit with the dice capping system of 2E, and there is no guarantee that the bonus dice system of 2R&E is a perfect match...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| crmcneill wrote: | | I haven't looked at it in detail, but I can see the point. All the 2E stats were designed (more or less) to fit with the dice capping system of 2E, and there is no guarantee that the bonus dice system of 2R&E is a perfect match... |
When I closely examined the dice capping system, it became apparent that walker scale vehicles were harder to damage than speeder scale but also easier to hit. While starfighter scale vehicles are actually harder to damage than walker and speeder scale vehicles and are also harder to hit than are slow moving walker scale vehicles or even speeders (fast moving X-wings and all).
So AT-ST are walker scale because (1) they are slow moving (at least in RotJ) and (2) they are armored.
Hoverscouts are speeder scale because (1) they are unarmored or lightly armored and (2) they are relatively nimble and harder to hit compared to walkers.
Additional nitpicky point, .50 MGs were anti light armor weapons in WWII and before so I think they are not a bad match to the laser cannon on a scout walker (though I do assume, whether that rules mention that or not, that walker scale weapons have an area of secondary blast effect). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The thing is, the hoverscout isn't just a jeep with a .50 cal. It's got a heavy blaster cannon, a laser cannon and a concussion missile launcher, plus the capacity to carry six troopers. It's more like an M2 Bradley than a jeep.
Plus, its not really fair to say that just because something is Walker scale, it is slow and lacks maneuverability. After all, starfighters are a scale step above walkers, yet they are known for speed and maneuverability. I guess what I'm looking at is maybe doing away with scale steps altogether for vehicle combat, so that everything above a speeder bike is in the same scale as walkers and starfighters. It may require some stat adjustment, but if WEG can tell us with a straight face that the Capital Ship bracket covers everything from a Skipray Blastboat up to the Eclipse, then the size differences between, say, a landspeeder and an AT-AT or the Millennium Falcon should be negligible...
Now, the repulsorscout from Planet of the Mists is more like what you are describing, with one driver and one guy on a raised platform with a repeating blaster...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
