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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Moff


Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8450

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad you were thinking along those lines, Wookiee. For the most part, Vin will be thinking something similar. He's going to be a little leery of being pegged as a Sith, given the way the war has gone. He'll also be less than enthused about being caught up in the Jedi camp, considering it's possible they could discover what he was...or at least, has been.

Guardian, are we safe to keep RPing for now, leaving any integral character interactions to you to resolve?
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Guardian_A
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Joined: 24 May 2011
Posts: 1655
Location: South Dakota, USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Skyler wrote:
Guardian, are we safe to keep RPing for now, leaving any integral character interactions to you to resolve?


Yes, you guys are free to keep RPing. I'll deal with any MIA characters as the need arises on my end.
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vanir
Jedi


Joined: 11 May 2011
Posts: 793

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I realise I'm new to the group/game...and I do hope I didn't overdo my character introduction post, but if I may regarding sentiments about our Sith backgrounds, I have thought about this for the Vontyr's point of view in trying to get a handle on playing him in-character (he's pretty far from what my personality and world view are like IRL, this is very much an acting exercise but that's part of the fun).

I sort of figured signing up to a political movement like the Sith is really about world view, evil people don't think they're evil they generally think everybody else is and they're the right ones and justified in brutality.
I figured my character would've signed up with the Sith not just for the money, and certainly not because he thought they were evil, but because his culture or upbringing led him to believe in "might makes right" and the strong should survive and the weak fail as an expression of nature, thus "rightness".

Perhaps along the way he may have become disillusioned with the fact that Sith authorities seem powerful at first glance, but with more familiarity it turns out they're just paranoid and sleazy. They stab their rivals in their sleep to get ahead, it's actually people like Jedi whom tend to face a threat in an honourable duel, the Sith version of an honourable duel is poisoning your opponent on the morning of the duel so he can't defend himself. It may tend to cause some Sith followers to re-evaluate the things they had believed before really getting to know what they got themselves into. They may realise much of what they believed was a lie.

That's point one.
Point two is even if a die hard believer in the warrior-aristocracy form of government, Sith followers may view the Sith defeat at Ruusan and the collapse of the empire as a natural expiry of the Sith point of view. It was tested in battle and failed. The people who won are by default, right to have won.

So both these reasons may give cause for Sith followers to question their allegiance in a perfectly logical fashion.

But in the meantime, presently the characters are forced into a position where they can't act so much as they would like to, but must act as needed due to the fact they are now hunted criminals. Regardless of what their leanings maybe at this stage they are forced by circumstance to at least plead ignorance and play innocent to the galaxy at large because they'll wind up on a prison world otherwise.
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Guardian_A
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Joined: 24 May 2011
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Location: South Dakota, USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, you didnt overdo the intro. I enjoyed it, and it did a great job of giving us all a feel for your new character!
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Jedi Skyler
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, a large number of soldiers in the Sith army were only there because the Sith were the ones who came along and offered a different life than the dreary, dead-end one they were trapped in. And a good number of those soldiers ended up spending some time in republic prisons, until it was decided that the rank-and-file soldiers weren't true believers in the Sith way, and so were allowed to restart their lives.
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Guardian_A
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Joined: 24 May 2011
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Location: South Dakota, USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Skyler wrote:
Also, a large number of soldiers in the Sith army were only there because the Sith were the ones who came along and offered a different life than the dreary, dead-end one they were trapped in.


In addition to that, many soldiers beleaved the Sith propaganda. They joined or were conscripted into service with the belief that they were protecting their loved ones from the armies of the Republic.

I heard a joke once, "When we were enlisted and sent to Korea, our drill Seargents told us that our enemy wanted to invade our country, our home states, our home towns, and our very homes. And once they do, they will do terrible things to the people we know, especially to the people we loved. So we went to fight, believing that we were protecting the ones we loved. Little did we know, our Korean counterparts were being told the same thing by their own drill Seargents. Needless to say, since we were in their own back yard, they were a little more motivated than we were."

While there were a lot of evil people serving in the Sith army, there were also a lot of people serving who believed that they were doing what was right, and protecting the people they loved.

The promise of power, or the promise of being able to protect what is important to you can both be powerful motivators.
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vanir
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So we're suggesting a very effective propaganda department then? Because one should recall the Sith were an alien empire in the rough vicinity of the Tionese which was kept separated from the Republic-explored galaxy by a ring of dangerous radiation clouds/fields which effectively created an isolated microcosm. The Sith could no more easily navigate into the slice and towards Coruscant than explorers could navigate into SithSpace. But then when the Force sensitive twins from Koros accidentally "instinctively astrogated" into SithSpace from the DeepCore and were captured this gave the Sith Empire the means to attack Coruscant directly.

Ultimately the Sith were historically a beligerant alien empire which invaded the Republic-colonised galaxy. The Tionese could more readily claim to be political rivals to the Republic because they were actually a series of lost colonies which departed their own political path of dictatorships and beligerance (Ossus was founded by the Jedi as a breakwater against the Tionese).

The Sith story is really that after the first Sith War, exiled dark Jedi then fled there and recreated the new Sith empire under their leadership, but the Sith themselves are originally violent aliens led by evil sorcerers. It's kind of classical Republic ancient history, probably taught in Academies like the way we learn of the classical empires and the dark ages in our schools. And the mediaeval period doesn't erase knowledge of earlier classical times or their unbridled brutality.

So to really plead that degree of ignorance, where you say well the Sith are just misunderstood, at some point you sort of have to make a personal choice to regard all conventional education curriculums and record keeping as utterly false. Ergo to reward the criminal and incarcerate the victim you are justified, you have swapped the two around in your elective rationalisations and personal challenge. And don't you think that's what evil people do?

But again of course evil people stoically do not believe they are the evil ones, it is always their opponents. But effectively by definition it is the statement, "oppose my sensibilities and you are by default evil to my eyes." They do not personally agree with some Republic policy or event so the Republic is evil.

Yes they've rationalised it to the point of feeling neutral or justified, but that's what they all do. The question ought be 'is what you did wrong?' and the Sith soldiers directly or contributively ignore rules of warfare and attack, slaughter and enslave civilian populations, take resources by force of arms rather than mutual trade agreements and began every campaign with militant invasion of peaceful systems.
Just because a soldier can tie his own conscience up so effectively with propaganda that he decides he's a good sort, doesn't make him not evil. It just makes him either criminal or insane.

Question
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Guardian_A
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Joined: 24 May 2011
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Location: South Dakota, USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said Vanir.

Its amazing what people can convince themselves is ok when they have spent years, if not decades being told that something is acceptable.

In this particular case, I leave it up to the players to determine the motivations, and rationalization for their own actions, past, present, and future.
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Wisconsin Wookie
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Joined: 25 May 2011
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Location: WI

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a little late, but welcome to all the new players! It will be good having you aboard!
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Guardian_A
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Joined: 24 May 2011
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Location: South Dakota, USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry about the recent absence. I'm in the middle of a "vacation" that is taking up a lot more of my time that originally anticipated. I'm trying to get my game threads caught up by this weekend.
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Frandal
Lieutenant Commander
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Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 162
Location: Madrid, Spain

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry! it's ok! no rush here!
Hope the vacation is giving you strengths to deal with the twins! Wink
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Guardian_A
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got back from the vacation last week, now I need a vacation to recover from the vacation!
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Frandal
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Joined: 06 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL I know that feeling Wink
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Guardian_A
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Location: South Dakota, USA

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last few weeks on the home front have been complete insanity, and the worst part is, there really isnt an end in sight (Nothing life threatening or anything like that. Just a lot of time consuming stuff on our plate is all. Been playing grease monkey with the car a lot lately, wind storm wandered off with a decent size part of my roof, . . . that kind of stuff). Because of this, I simply havent had time to invest in my online games, and I sincerely apologize for this.

Since my time for gaming is VERY limited recently, I'm only able to check in irregularly at best. And I feel that you all deserve better than a rare post from time to time from me.

Before I completely throw in the towel, would anyone be interested in taking over one, or both of my current games? If so, please PM me and we'll see about passing on the torch. If anyone is interested, I'd share a few notes and let the new GM run the game(s) any way they want.

Thanks for the understanding.
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
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Joined: 07 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry things have been going so terribly awry for you, my friend! We definitely miss you on here.

My own availability (and very, VERY long time since running any kind of game) makes me not very qualified to take over for you. Otherwise, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

I hope things get infinitely better for you, and soon.
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