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ZzaphodD
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 Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Ray wrote: | If that was the case, then Shotguns would have gone out of style a long time ago.  |
Well, this isnt a shotgun, is it?
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | What I really dont understand is why anyone would want such a thing..
Wouldnt it be better with a fast automatic weapon? I feels like you have to lug around with a clunky weapon to use in very narrowly defined situations.. Also, given the fact that you dont have control over where the bullets hit in a spray pattern, no one might get hit even if you aim dead on at some range. |
As it stands, this weapon would be a set of 7 precision rifles, all in one bundle. Each outer barrel would be aimed off boresight by the same tiny amount, creating a pattern with one shot dead on, surrounded by six hits in a regular hexagon pattern. This gun would creat more predictable and controllable patterns than either an automatic or a shotgun and at much greater ranges, so it would have a niche of its own. That said, this was never intended to be an entirely practical weapon, for a human at least...
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thedemonapostle
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | What I really dont understand is why anyone would want such a thing..
Wouldnt it be better with a fast automatic weapon? I feels like you have to lug around with a clunky weapon to use in very narrowly defined situations.. Also, given the fact that you dont have control over where the bullets hit in a spray pattern, no one might get hit even if you aim dead on at some range. |
having fired the M60E3, the M240B, the M249 SAW, the M2, the M16A2, the M16A3, the M4A1 and several just plain old semi automatic firearms, i can say that fast automatic weapons, fully automatic fire and burst fire, is used as either a spray and pray maneuver or suppressive fire. as discussed in other topics, recoil is a Bi*** that compounds after the first shot fired.
what i believe Fallon Kell is trying to make is a single shot, shotgun style break action, six barreled weapon that would have a higher intimidation value than actual continuous combat value. it would be like carrying around a large caliber revolver when your opponent is bringing an extended mag desert eagle. both are psychotically over powered but one wont jam as easily as the other and one has a few extra rounds afterwards.
in combat situations think sniper vs infantryman. the infantryman will fire thousands upon thousand of rounds per kill, while the sniper goes for that 1:1 ratio of combat shots fired to combat kills.
another thought is, why would anyone carry around a BlasTech T-6 “Thunderer” (6D+2 damage) when your average alien has between 2D-3D strength, even your average imperial storm trooper only has 3D total to resist damage with...
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Bren
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| The Brain wrote: | | Google search Nock volley gun. |
Nice to see that someone else is sharp enough to recall the historical predecessor.
The weapon that Fallon is describing sounds exactly like a rifled version of the Nock volley gun. And like the Nock it best fits a need in an archaic pre-repeating fire era. I can't see it for a modern or advanced tech era. Too much weight from the multiple barrels for the advantage of 6-7 shots with one pull combined with a slow overall ROF when compared with an auto or semi-auto configuration. Additionally the intimidation factor would be minimal in the field since it is designed to be used at a distance and the opponent is too far away to see it clearly. |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:11 am Post subject: |
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I gotta agree. Nothing says you can't design a gun like this, but its usefulness would be somewhat limited in the larger galaxy. Maybe someone from a low-tech planet would carry one of these, but it really would be outclassed by modern-standard weapons in the SWU. Now, if you were to go truly sci-fi and load the thing with smart bullets or something, that would be scary. If this gun fired six or seven shots that all took diverging courses in the general direction of their target, then all suddenly arced back in, converging on their target simultaneously from multiple separate angles, that would greatly increase the target's Dodge difficulty. Plus, the bullets could also be loaded with nano-warheads to deliver all kinds of nasty surprises. Imagine six or seven cortosis tipped bullets converging on a Jedi from multiple angles. With the effect that cortosis has on lightsaber blades, if he parries even one, he is SOL to parry the rest of them. Sounds like a particularly nasty anti-Jedi weapon.
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Also consider that added weight may not be a problem for some. Wookiees, Barabels, Esoomians, Gammoreans, and your occasional human bounty hunter in correllian power armor probably couldn't care less about an extra 20-30 lbs of barrel. Heck, the Gammoreans would probably appreciate it for when they forget to reload and start using the thing as a club.
Top-break shotguns are still practical in the modern world, too. They reload more quickly than even those with box magazines, and not every weapon ever used in a fire fight is designed for combat against automatic weapons.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| thedemonapostle wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | What I really dont understand is why anyone would want such a thing..
Wouldnt it be better with a fast automatic weapon? I feels like you have to lug around with a clunky weapon to use in very narrowly defined situations.. Also, given the fact that you dont have control over where the bullets hit in a spray pattern, no one might get hit even if you aim dead on at some range. |
having fired the M60E3, the M240B, the M249 SAW, the M2, the M16A2, the M16A3, the M4A1 and several just plain old semi automatic firearms, i can say that fast automatic weapons, fully automatic fire and burst fire, is used as either a spray and pray maneuver or suppressive fire. as discussed in other topics, recoil is a Bi*** that compounds after the first shot fired.
what i believe Fallon Kell is trying to make is a single shot, shotgun style break action, six barreled weapon that would have a higher intimidation value than actual continuous combat value. it would be like carrying around a large caliber revolver when your opponent is bringing an extended mag desert eagle. both are psychotically over powered but one wont jam as easily as the other and one has a few extra rounds afterwards.
in combat situations think sniper vs infantryman. the infantryman will fire thousands upon thousand of rounds per kill, while the sniper goes for that 1:1 ratio of combat shots fired to combat kills.
another thought is, why would anyone carry around a BlasTech T-6 “Thunderer” (6D+2 damage) when your average alien has between 2D-3D strength, even your average imperial storm trooper only has 3D total to resist damage with... |
I can agree with some weaponsmiths idea of 'kewlness' value, but I have a hard time seeing this as a 'sniper'...
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | I can agree with some weaponsmiths idea of 'kewlness' value, but I have a hard time seeing this as a 'sniper'... |
True, although with a .30 caliber round, it might be a good one. On TV we see the intervention sniper the most. The guy who has to take out a guy with a gun who has his arm wrapped around an old lady with a baby, but in combat, it's usually a matter of taking out an officer or a machine gunner with two more bad guys sitting right next to him. No one minds if you kill two bad guys with one shot.
If the barrels were free floated, and the rounds triggered electronically, this weapon wouldn't sacrifice accuracy significantly, and likely give very much better odds of a one shot-one kill ratio or better.
Not that the idea here is a sniper rifle, per se (though it does call to mind the Skullmashers from Borderlands), but a battle rifle or long range shotgun for fights where you have a lot of cover. Or, you know, if you happen to be a gigantic alien...
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jmanski
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Don't forget the coolness factor. Star Wars is filled with ideas that are not particularly practical, but they look good while they do whatever they do. |
Here Here!
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | I can agree with some weaponsmiths idea of 'kewlness' value, but I have a hard time seeing this as a 'sniper'... |
True, although with a .30 caliber round, it might be a good one. On TV we see the intervention sniper the most. The guy who has to take out a guy with a gun who has his arm wrapped around an old lady with a baby, but in combat, it's usually a matter of taking out an officer or a machine gunner with two more bad guys sitting right next to him. No one minds if you kill two bad guys with one shot.
If the barrels were free floated, and the rounds triggered electronically, this weapon wouldn't sacrifice accuracy significantly, and likely give very much better odds of a one shot-one kill ratio or better.
Not that the idea here is a sniper rifle, per se (though it does call to mind the Skullmashers from Borderlands), but a battle rifle or long range shotgun for fights where you have a lot of cover. Or, you know, if you happen to be a gigantic alien... |
But why would you make a 'pepper-box' weapon into a sniper in the first place? Sure its doable in a universe where you can travel easily across the galaxy....but why?
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Bren
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| If I want a multi-barrel weapon in Star Wars I'm going to go with this. |
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | But why would you make a 'pepper-box' weapon into a sniper in the first place? Sure its doable in a universe where you can travel easily across the galaxy....but why? |
Remember that it isn't necessarily intended as a sniper rifle, but if I were to use one as such, here's why. Bullets don't always fly in perfect ballistic paths, and even sniper's shots aren't always perfect. Having a large 7 round pattern increases your odds of a lethal hit on the first trigger pull. At closer ranges, it allows you to take less time lining up your first shot than you would with an automatic of equal weight. Basically, all the advantages of a shotgun has over a pistol, but extended out to rifle ranges.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Then why bother with even slightly diverging courses at all? Atmospheric conditions and such will practically guarantee that the bullets diverge to some degree at range.
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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Because the spread from atmospheric effects would be less than a minute of arc, which isn't enough. Also, the spread in the barrels is predictable and reliable, rather than random like drift would be.
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Bren
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | At closer ranges, it allows you to take less time lining up your first shot than you would with an automatic of equal weight. |
But the automatic doesn't have 6-7 barrels so it is likely of lesser not equal weight. Actually, that's one of the objections to the practicality of the multibarrel weapon and one of the reasons that the Nock volley gun didn't catch on. Instead of carrying the weight of 6 extra barrels a soldier could carry a backup weapon and/or extra ammunition.
Question for the gunsmiths/gun experts: Are shotgun barrels lighter than rifle barrels? I presume the rifling of the barrel increases the weight compared to an unrifled barrels.
Initially I was not at all excited about the volley gun approach, but thinking about the kewl factor vs the impracticality, this seems best suited as a custom signature weapon for a single character (probably a villain). The distincitive multishot pattern would provide Step 1 of The Lester Dent Pulp Paper Master Fiction Plot - a different murder method for the villain to use. So this might be a kewl signature weapon for an opponent - probably an assassin or maybe a ruthless bring-'em-back-dead bounty hunter. And the villain should either have a gun rest or tripod or be a big alien, a cyborg, or wearing powered armor. |
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