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Star Wars Alternate Universe: Two Ideas
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:38 pm    Post subject: Star Wars Alternate Universe: Two Ideas Reply with quote

So, every time I watch EpIII, I wish I could see what would happen if....

1.
a. Anakin and Mace Windu defeated Palpatine, or

b. Yoda defeated Palpatine.

I also like to think about what might have happened had Vader made a different choice:

1. Survived killing the emperor and/or

2. Turned Luke to the dark side afterward or

3. Survived and participated in the re-institution of the Jedi Order.

I'm thinking about doing some write ups on these possibilities, but I'm not sure which ones are the most interesting... What thoughts/ideas come to mind about how these possible alternatives would play out?

I think if Mace/Anakin defeated Palpatine, we would be back to pre-EpI status. Whereas if Yoda had done it, Anakin would have died on Mustafar, leaving Yoda, Obi-Wan, some stragglers and the Skywalker twins to re-build the Jedi Order.

But how would it be different? What changes would the senior members make in order to "check and balance" with the republic? Would they disassociate from the government altogether, acting instead like "superheros" who just jump in and help when they're needed?

As for the post RotJ options, Luke and Vader would probably have a very easy time destroying the rebellion, since Luke knows a lot of the inside dough on those guys. Would they be able to turn Leiah, too? (I doubt it, unless they were very smooth operators, using subtlety and cunning rather than the whole "I am your father/brother" approach.)

From an RPG standpoint, I think this would make a great adventure setting since everything would be "free game." There would be no worry of altering the "canonical" elements of the story, since the heroes would be, in effect, writhing the new developments.

So, what would you expect to see in one or all of these situations?
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Fallon Kell
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Rebellion stands little or no chance if Luke is turned, but what if Vader survived and wasn't turned. What if he joined the rebellion and turned the New Republic into his Empire, just as Palpitine had done to the old. Then you would soon have the remnants of the Empire pitted against the evil New Republic, and likely a new rebel alliance full of disillusioned people now unwilling to trust any form of centralized power in the galaxy.

Come to think of it, most of the new rebellion would probably rally around a man named Pon Raul... Laughing

Seriously, though, the first paragraph is probably the most interesting scenario I can make out of that story.
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vanir
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Say Anakin held his water and Mace slew Palpy. Mace would later become the new Palpatine, given his first order of business would be using the Jedi Order to enact a provisional government, this places him effectively in Palpatine's position and he's already teetering on the Dark Side with his combat philosophy/emphasis and general arrogance, further down that path with Palpatine's summary execution without first convening the Council on his fate (the decision was made in the heat of the moment during combat, dangerously like an emotional justification involving fears et al).

So it slows the progression of the Imperial State by substituting its dark side representative from Palpatine to Windu and having to spend extra time to fully corrupt Windu but the core mechanic remains the same.

The whole deal is that absolute power is the problem, not the individual in control of it, that's the lure of the dark side. Sentients are fallible, so it is the power itself which is the problem and what must be combated. People will always range from dark to light, that never changes, the question is when you make an absolute seat of power, it's only a matter of time before a disagreement becomes totalitarian dictatorship. It's not a light or dark thing, it's a power thing.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alternate universes such as you describe are common plot lines for Star Wars fan fiction. The quality of writing varies from story to story, but there are some real gems to be found. Check fanfiction.net or theforce.net for starters.
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Fallon Kell
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like that one, Vanir!
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fallon Kell wrote:
...what if Vader survived and wasn't turned. What if he joined the rebellion and turned the New Republic into his Empire, just as Palpitine had done to the old. Then you would soon have the remnants of the Empire pitted against the evil New Republic, and likely a new rebel alliance full of disillusioned people now unwilling to trust any form of centralized power in the galaxy.


Or anyone exhibiting force powers... Laughing

Perhaps a Star Wars anti-jedi/sith variant of CLAWS, Citizens League Against Wizards and Sorcerers (from an old Warhammer scenario), would be a growing force in the galaxy... Laughing
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MattMartin23
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:11 am    Post subject: Re: Star Wars Alternate Universe: Two Ideas Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
So, every time I watch EpIII, I wish I could see what would happen if....

1.
a. Anakin and Mace Windu defeated Palpatine, or

b. Yoda defeated Palpatine.

I also like to think about what might have happened had Vader made a different choice:

1. Survived killing the emperor and/or

2. Turned Luke to the dark side afterward or

3. Survived and participated in the re-institution of the Jedi Order.

I'm thinking about doing some write ups on these possibilities, but I'm not sure which ones are the most interesting... What thoughts/ideas come to mind about how these possible alternatives would play out?

I think if Mace/Anakin defeated Palpatine, we would be back to pre-EpI status. Whereas if Yoda had done it, Anakin would have died on Mustafar, leaving Yoda, Obi-Wan, some stragglers and the Skywalker twins to re-build the Jedi Order.

But how would it be different? What changes would the senior members make in order to "check and balance" with the republic? Would they disassociate from the government altogether, acting instead like "superheros" who just jump in and help when they're needed?

As for the post RotJ options, Luke and Vader would probably have a very easy time destroying the rebellion, since Luke knows a lot of the inside dough on those guys. Would they be able to turn Leiah, too? (I doubt it, unless they were very smooth operators, using subtlety and cunning rather than the whole "I am your father/brother" approach.)

From an RPG standpoint, I think this would make a great adventure setting since everything would be "free game." There would be no worry of altering the "canonical" elements of the story, since the heroes would be, in effect, writhing the new developments.

So, what would you expect to see in one or all of these situations?


If Anakin and Mace destroyed Palpatine, I believe that Anakin would have proven to Master Windu that he was not the threat to the order Mace viewed him as. Some respect would have been forged there. Mace would have chastised his relationship with Padme and said that Anakin's fate as a Jedi would rest in the hand of the Council. But moreover, Mace would take the high ground heralding Anakin as the Chosen One that ended the Clone Wars.

After Anakin humbly apologizes to the Jedi Order, as a whole and in private personally to both Obi Wan and Yoda, he is put on temporary leave of duty while the Council determines his fate. Anakin takes this time to tend to Padme, as Obi Wan says "this it only right". Although it is debated extensively Anakin's killing of Palpatine and placing the good of the Republic over Anakin's fear of Padme's death is the trump card that keeps him in the Order.

Yoda and Mace Windu, look to one another, to Obi Wan then to Ayla Secura, Saesee Tinn, Ki Adi Mundi, Po Kloon, Luminara Unduli, Adi Gallia and Shaak Ti and say, "Perhaps we have failed to see the Living Force through the eyes of the youthful Skywalker. Perhaps our insistence on rules and dogmas have blinded us. Whether tempted by the dark side or not, Anakin has brought balance to the Force, a Jedi he will be, a Master he will become and join the Council he shall".

Just my take...
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Jerrod Owex
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just recently started a new thread along these lines, lol. I was trying to figure out something i could do for a SW campaign that did not revolve, or feel shoe-horned, around an already established event/story. Then i started thinking about how things could have been if this or that went different.

Honestly i posted my thoughts online so that some of the things could be done by someone other than me, I have about two pages of things i need to figure out how to change, or some even if they would be relevant. Here is a link to the page, it has kind of gotten off track though. If you are still working on this I'd like to get together and see what you've got or some of your ideas.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if vader had survived the death star 2, i doubt he would have been accepted by any of the Rebellion/galaxy at large cause of all the evil he had done.. especially by / to Leia.
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Jedi Skyler
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Star Wars Alternate Universe: Two Ideas Reply with quote

MattMartin23 wrote:
If Anakin and Mace destroyed Palpatine, I believe that Anakin would have proven to Master Windu that he was not the threat to the order Mace viewed him as. Some respect would have been forged there. Mace would have chastised his relationship with Padme and said that Anakin's fate as a Jedi would rest in the hand of the Council. But moreover, Mace would take the high ground heralding Anakin as the Chosen One that ended the Clone Wars.

After Anakin humbly apologizes to the Jedi Order, as a whole and in private personally to both Obi Wan and Yoda, he is put on temporary leave of duty while the Council determines his fate. Anakin takes this time to tend to Padme, as Obi Wan says "this it only right". Although it is debated extensively Anakin's killing of Palpatine and placing the good of the Republic over Anakin's fear of Padme's death is the trump card that keeps him in the Order.

Yoda and Mace Windu, look to one another, to Obi Wan then to Ayla Secura, Saesee Tinn, Ki Adi Mundi, Po Kloon, Luminara Unduli, Adi Gallia and Shaak Ti and say, "Perhaps we have failed to see the Living Force through the eyes of the youthful Skywalker. Perhaps our insistence on rules and dogmas have blinded us. Whether tempted by the dark side or not, Anakin has brought balance to the Force, a Jedi he will be, a Master he will become and join the Council he shall".

Just my take...


Personally, I figure that if Anakin does NOT prevent Windu from killing Palpatine, then, as Windu told him, he'd have earned Windu's trust, which he'd never really had. This would have been a HUGE step for Anakin, and would have earned him his staunchest supporter. Windu would have gone to bat for Anakin with the rest of the council, and would eventually have convinced them that Anakin truly was the Chosen One. Not only would he have brought balance to the Force by ending the Sith, he'd also have done so by fathering a child. Or, as they'd come to find out, twins.

I also think this balance would be furthered by having the Jedi Order return to their earlier practices, where Jedi were not castigated for having families. This radical change in policy would prompt a rejoining of the Jedi Order and the Grey Paladins, which would swell the ranks of the Order, a necessary boon after the debacle at Geonosis.

This rejoining would not only bring a host of people back to the Order, it would also bring a great many new talents back into the fold; the Grey Paladins were adamant about not being trained solely in lightsaber combat...rather, they learned whatever weapons appealed to them. There was no stipulation that they COULDN'T learn to use lightsabers, but neither were they told they HAD to.

This huge victory would usher in a new Golden Age for the Jedi Order; doubtless a number of individuals from other Force traditions would begin having more relations with the Jedi, like the Baran Do Sages for example, sending members of their various Orders to join the Jedi, or at least open dialogue and sharing of philosophies and techniques.

And, of course, the Order's moratorium on the ban on having families would naturally provide them with an endless supply of new Jedi recruits, as the already trained Jedi mate, either with each other or with 'ordinary mortals,' and start procreating.

I agree that Anakin would, after this major moral victory, be elevated to the rank of Master and given a seat on the Council. It's even possible that the Council might decide to add a few seats, figuring that adding some new blood might help to prevent the repeat of such a lack of vision on the part of the Council. After all, the Council went for how many hundreds of years without detecting the presence of the Sith? Especially in the last several decades before RotS, when Palpatine's machinations started coming to fruition, and at a much faster pace to boot; the most anyone was able to detect was a swirling, nebulous cloud, shot through with the dark side.

Someone wanting to throw some SERIOUS hydrospanners into the Jedi Council at this point might even have someone, say, Ki Adi Mundi, putting forth that perhaps Master Yoda ought to step down from the council, given that he's supposed to be the wisest, most powerful of them all, and yet he couldn't detect all this without Anakin's help. Perhaps Mace Windu becomes the new Grand Master. Perhaps Yoda voluntarily steps down, deciding that he needs time to contemplate events. Sure, he'll stay around and continue to teach the younglings, perhaps offer counsel to Jedi who seek him out...or perhaps he might decide to seclude himself, becoming a hermit for a while until he has properly contemplated all that has happened. Either way, I do NOT believe Windu would fall to the dark side. Yes, his combat technique and philosophies do flirt with the dark side, but that's because his style requires the practitioner to actually ENJOY combat (or, in game terms, it requires the character to have at least one Dark Side Point). Beyond that, however, Windu is wholeheartedly committed to the light side of the Force, and to upholding the ideals of the Jedi. And, besides Yoda, he's the senior Master in the Order. He's worked too hard and long to keep the Order from crumbling to fall to the dark side.

As for garkhal's note about Vader not being accepted by the Rebellion/galaxy at large, that's not necessarily true. Well, the persona of Darth Vader would not be accepted. He'd have to be 'resurrected' as Anakin Skywalker somehow. Yes, this would involve creating/procuring new armor for him; however, it'd be a chance for him to be reborn, for a new persona to be created. The armor would obviously be less threatening. Also, since Anakin would have returned to the light side, it's also completely possible that Anakin could end up having most of his injuries healed through the Force. During the time of ESB, he sat in his hyperbaric chamber, outside his armor, meditating on healing his body. He did start to feel some effects of his efforts; however, he couldn't maintain it because he was a dark sider, and healing does NOT come easily or quickly to them, so he got no real benefits. However, after being saved by his son, he'd have plenty of time to relearn and to meditate, using the light side of the Force, even having Luke, and others that Luke, Artoo and Threepio find as he's rebuilding the Order, concentrating with Anakin to help him heal. Although it would be possible for him to assume a completely new identity, so he could operate unimpeded in the galaxy, I'm pretty sure Luke would argue strongly that Anakin needed to atone - publicly - for his atrocities. However, like he does later with Kyp Durron, Luke would most adamantly insist that Anakin be remanded to Jedi custody, since they could deal more appropriately (and skillfully) with him, and because as fellow Force-users, they much better understood the issues involved in being tempted by the dark side, and could better help him deal with such issues.
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Jerrod Owex
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 1:38 am    Post subject: Re: Star Wars Alternate Universe: Two Ideas Reply with quote

Jedi Skyler wrote:
Personally, I figure that if Anakin does NOT prevent Windu from killing Palpatine, then, as Windu told him, he'd have earned Windu's trust...


But allowing Windu to kill Palpatine, an action a Jedi should NEVER take against ANYONE especially since Windu had the upper hand and Anakin was the weight that tilted the scale in Pal's favor, would be to allow Windu to fall to the Darkside and that is not something that he should allow. There are just other ways to go about it then what he did in the movie.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if they DID take palp prisoner how do you expect them to have kept him prisoner till a trial?
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Jerrod Owex
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not thought through all of the details yet, lol. But that is a good question.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Technology that combines:

Galaxy of Intrigue - page 10, Shield Cage wrote:

Type: Ray shield trap
Skill: Security
Cost: 10,000
Availability: 3, F
Game Notes: A shield cage is a portable shield generator used to trap a target. It's a large flat disk 2 meters in diameter, which must be connected to a power supply to operate and drains portable power generators after 2 hours of continuous use. Multiple shield cages can be linked together to expand the shielded area. The shield is air permeable, allowing the target to breathe and communicate verbally. Anyone confined within the cage must make an opposed roll against the cage's Strength of 7D to break out.


and
Gry Sarth's 'Equipment' Collection - Page: 116, Universal Energy Cage wrote:
Model: Imperial Universal Energy Cage
Type: Enclosed prisoner transfer system
Scale: Character
Cost: 100,000
Availability: X (restricted to legal governments)
Move: 15; 45 kmh
Game Notes: Energy cage encloses prisoner In a force field
with a Strength of up to 15D (unit only applies as much
energy as necessary to restrain prisoner, so the energy level
is often much tower when not being resisted). Somehow, the
cage emanates a special type of energy that blocks Force
energies and similar mental energies with an effectiveness
of up to 15D. The unit has a special repulsor unit keeping
the prisoner suspended in the center of the cage. This
bottom mounted unit also supplies oxygen to the prisoner
(there are no provisions for food and water; it is presumed
that a Jedi will go into hibernation if he or she spends a long
time in the cage).
Source: Dark Empire Sourcebook (page 129), Gundark’s
Fantastic Technology (page 74)

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Darth_Hilarious
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that inperial energy cage sounds just like what dooku used to hold kenobi in on geonosis in attack of the clones
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