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An other DSP Mechanic
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DB 2.0
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:03 pm    Post subject: An other DSP Mechanic Reply with quote

Ok over the years I've lost too many characters to turning to the dark side because that 16.666% chance came up on the first D6 roll, so I've worked up a new mechanic based on difficultly rolls. basically it's a Willpower roll with a difficulty level tied to your DSP, modified by circumstance

1DSP Very Easy
2DSP Easy
3DSP Moderate
4DSP Difficult
5DSP Very Difficult
6DSP Heroic

Calling on the Darkside +1 Difficulty Level
Using a Force Point to serve the ends of the Darkside +1 Difficulty Level
Committing Evil at a Dramatically appropriate time +1 Difficulty level
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You sure about your reading of the Dark Side rule? My understanding is that you had to roll LESS than your number of DSPs to fall, making it a 0% on the first try. Did I miss something?
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DB 2.0
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my past GM's have played it as equal to or under, all so if you maned any thing but a Helm, Com, Senors or Shields station or an Ion Turret or fired your Blaster not on Stun you earned a DSP, and could only use your Light Saber against Darkside Adepts or Sith & Assassin Droids unless you wanted DSP.
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Fallon Kell
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DB 2.0 wrote:
my past GM's have played it as equal to or under, all so if you maned any thing but a Helm, Com, Senors or Shields station or an Ion Turret or fired your Blaster not on Stun you earned a DSP, and could only use your Light Saber against Darkside Adepts or Sith & Assassin Droids unless you wanted DSP.
That's draconian. They're abusing the DSP system.
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DB 2.0
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know, when ep.1 came out we ribbed him over the Jedi being Dirty Hippies who didn't bath or wash their robes because they might kill some Midies.
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Ankhanu
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
You sure about your reading of the Dark Side rule? My understanding is that you had to roll LESS than your number of DSPs to fall, making it a 0% on the first try. Did I miss something?

Nah, you had it right, his GMs were just harsh Razz
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that was just an abusive GM.

Oh, BTW, for a character with an average Willpower (3D) the odds aren't much better with the 1 difficulty level per DSP method. And it makes it easiers for high Will Jedi to get away with doing evil. A PC with a 6D Willpower and a few CP or FP could seriously take advantage of this.
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Ankhanu
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
Yeah, that was just an abusive GM.

Oh, BTW, for a character with an average Willpower (3D) the odds aren't much better with the 1 difficulty level per DSP method. And it makes it easiers for high Will Jedi to get away with doing evil. A PC with a 6D Willpower and a few CP or FP could seriously take advantage of this.

Could rule that the resist roll cannot be augmented by CP/FP, there are a couple rolls in which their use is not permitted, this could be another.

It also kind of fits with some more modern ideas, like users of Vaapad, who tread the line between dark and light. I think it would still need some tweaking to make such tasks more difficult and less likely to be abused, but, it offers some interesting flavour. Perhaps use a mechanic similar to the temptation mechanics already in play, in which each DSP can offer additional Force dice for lightside players... except, each DSP, in addition to making resistance more difficult with the difficulty level, removes 1D from Willpower?

With this idea, say you have a lightsider walking the line between light and dark side, who has a high Willpower, let's say, 8D, and has 5DSP, when he rolls to maintain his balance, he's rolling 8D-5D=3D vs. Very Difficult difficulty.

This way, it requires extreme Willpower to maintain one's light affiliation as DSPs build up... it also encourages people to spend dice into Willpower, an often overlooked skill.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but there is still the underlying problem of somebody with a high Willpower die code being permitted to get away with evil. I could see some PCs doing something because they know they can beat the difficulty with their high WIllpower. I just don't see Yodfa being able to get away with a killing spree because he has a high Willpower. Surprised

But the random roll does help to make the Dark Side more temping. If the rolls look so ewasy to make, PCs will tend to risk it more often. Twisted Evil

Maybe if:
1) The fixed difficulty got a die code of 1D per DSP? Yes it gives the PCs a little more room, but wild dice can be funny.

2) You can't spend FPs or CPs on the roll as they are manifestations of the Force. And it would just make it easier for the darkside (or basically, if the PC spends a FP, the DSPs get to double their die code too).

3) Maybe the DSPs could be used to help lure the PC into doing more evil.? When the situation comes up, they have to roll against the DSPs or fail. Like how Anakin fails to control his emotions and then acts. A Jedi who fails this way and does evil, can avoid the DSP penalty by showing remorse and trying to atone. If he shows no remorse and doesn't try to atone for his misdeeds, he gets the DSP.
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Fallon Kell
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
Yeah, but there is still the underlying problem of somebody with a high Willpower die code being permitted to get away with evil. I could see some PCs doing something because they know they can beat the difficulty with their high WIllpower. I just don't see Yodfa being able to get away with a killing spree because he has a high Willpower. Surprised
Depending on what you mean by "get away with", this might be accurate. Loss of your character to the Dark Side is not the only possible consequence. Some are quite natural and predictable, others are unexpected. Yoda, wise as he is said to be, is probably aware that the killing spree isn't worth it in the face of all the consequences.

As a Christian, in my own real life, one of the things I've learned is that you never net a good result by breaking God's law. For example, you might think that it would be best to steal a loaf of bread and give it to a poor man, but maybe that man's hunger was driving him to quit a drug habit, or maybe he's allergic to wheat and doesn't know it, and in his weakened state the bread would kill him... All hypothetical examples, yes, but the fact that morality exists for a reason is what I'm getting at.

It stands to reason that there is correlation in Star Wars.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MAybe, but the point is how it works in game mechanics.

A high willpower letting a character do more evil before getting coruppted. isn't right.

Yoda knows doing evil is wrong and chooses not to do evil. He doesn't do evil and get away with it because he has a high Willpower. More like his high Willpower keeps him from taking the quick & easy way out.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been playing with a rule that allows Willpower checks with certain DSP powers, where success allows the Jedi to use the power to inflict stun attacks if he succeeds, but IMO, allowing a Jedi the opportunity to avoid all DSPs with a Willpower roll is taking it too far. Some acts are just plain evil whether you are controlling your negative emotions or not.
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Ankhanu
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, avoiding all DSPs is a poor choice. Rolling for certain circumstances like you mentioned has some merit, but, yeah, I'd say the restrictions would be strong.
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DB 2.0
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's why I'm making it a roll to fall to the Darkside, Heck if you do the Big Evil with the Force Powers and call upon the Darkside to spend a Force point to do it your looking at a Difficult roll first time out, where if you accidentally score a DSP from training with a other Force Adept with DSP's or from using a trapped Sith (or Dark Jedi) Talisman it would only be very easy to avoid succumbing to the Darkside.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DB 2.0 wrote:
That's why I'm making it a roll to fall to the Darkside, Heck if you do the Big Evil with the Force Powers and call upon the Darkside to spend a Force point to do it your looking at a Difficult roll first time out, where if you accidentally score a DSP from training with a other Force Adept with DSP's or from using a trapped Sith (or Dark Jedi) Talisman it would only be very easy to avoid succumbing to the Darkside.


Except a Difficult roll won't be difficult to somebody with a high Willpower. Especially if you allow him to use CPs or FPs to adjust the roll. Since Willpower is a skill, a player could build it up to 6-7D or more and then start taking chances.
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