Stoic/Occidental philosophy in the EU?

[lurker]

I’m not sure if this is the right forum to post it in but … here you go.

It has always bothered me that the SW and Jedi philosophies are all so overtly oriental. I’ve always thought there should be at least off shoots or schools that have elements form Stoic or other occidental philosophy. Even without Christianity’s look at good/evil, there are still some applicable western views that should fit: self control, you can’t change others so focus on making yourself the best you can, might does not make right, etc etc.
Now I’m not saying completely changing the Jedi’s eastern feel, just adding elements of western ideas.

Am I alone on this? If not, where have you added occidental elements into your games?
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"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain

Forgive all spelling errors.

[cheshire]

I think that there are several times that people want to put Occidental paradigms into the game, sometimes in doing so trying to cram something where it doesn't fit, or altering the general philosophy to make it seem more apprehensible under prevailing Occidental ideas. I've even seen some people try to shape a Jedi philosophy that leans more toward a consequentialist moral system, simply because the GM or player sees that consequentialism is prima facie the way to make moral decisions.

I've used Western examples to show touch points to make Jedi seem more understandable in a few different ways, though they've generally been brief and very limited. I've never thought about how to make a Jedi with Western references.

However, it does remind me of Bushido: The Soul of Japan, the book was written by someone who was growing up in pre-cultural revolution Japan, studied in Western schools, and relates several of the underpinnings of Bushido and other Japanese cultural ideas to Western counterparts. Certainly none of the Occidental ideas he presents have a one-to-one correlation, but they provide touch points for the Western thinker. It would be interesting to see someone take such a task for the Jedi.
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Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind.

[vanir]

The philosophies of traditional ryuha are entirely based within the gotonpo and gogyo setsu elemental theories, then as all workings of the universe are related to one and all humanism the other elemental theories ergo the guiding principle is thought, word and deed to effect change which is why the do-disciplines such as the tea ceremony total investment in all seemingly mundane exercises is derived.

There are some parallels, even with the prequel introduced duality of the Living Force and Unifying Force, as gotonpo exists only within inyodo (ie. yin-yang as a practicable discipline), yet gogyo setsu is entirely another world view used in japanese witchcraft of the mediaeval period (derived of tibetan and chinese paganism).
The later ryuha utilised either leaning simply as workable tools, some familial groups became criminals and others elevated to samurai positions (histories are on display at Museum of Japan).

However as I've studied personally with two, very old traditional ryuha (takamatsu kobudo and hatsumi taibudo) I find myself the SW/Jedi presentation by Lucas largely through Judaic eyes, with a wide array of influences including western, but distinctly his own. Not particularly oriental, at least as far as traditional Japanese ryuha go.
I understand however that EU also draws from an increasing, exceeding array of its own influences.

For one thing, whilst the branding of criminal organisations or corrupt governments is nothing new in Japan, the phenomenon of satanlike villains and godlike heroes most certainly isn't traditionally Japanese, light and dark just doesn't play that kind of role. What we'd relate to as a villain in a Japanese story is swept by events and hardly malicious, the heroes are totally ordinary doing totally ordinary things, the plot and tale itself are where the focus lay and never the elevation of individuals. Notation of their activities certainly, but not the very western concept of genetic superiority (or genetic aberrance), which is totally absent.

[atgxtg]

I'm not bothered by the philosophy, it's a far away setting.

But it's not an entirely eastern viewpoint either. Much of the philosophy of the Force could be interpreted as Judeo-Chirstian beliefs, with the lightside (good) representing God, and the Darskide (evil) representing Satan.

Anakin's "immaculate conception", and status as the "Chosen One" is an obvious Christ parrell, although Anakin succumbs to evil and is redeemed.

The SW Universe really isn"t an eastern setting, and the Jedi traditions is a hodgepodge of Eastern and Western beliefs and traditions, and in some ways they clash. Luke disobeying Yoda to go save his friends is practically an open example of the clash of western and easter beliefs.


But what difference does it make? I mean as far as gameplay goes?

[mdlake]

Eh. Just as various "Christian values" aren't exclusively Christian--and boy, does it tick me off when a tribe claims some kind of pre-eminence in matters of charity, humility, etc.--there's nothing to say that self-discipline, mindfulness, peace, and other Jedi virtues are exclusively Taoist/Confucian/etc. The "western" values you describe are already present, even if they aren't page one of Jedi Philosophy for Dummies. So what's the problem?

I'm sure enlightened Jedi would agree that there are many paths up the mountain although there is only one mountain. Still, killing all the Jedi but Yoda and Obi-Wan rather sharply narrows the field of alternative perspectives...

So do the insidious powers of branding, marketing, and copyright.[/i]

[lurker]

Guys thanks for the replies