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Character and gaming environment discussion (OOC)
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Quetzacotl
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Joined: 29 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I'm just gonna go with that. Even if he was only talking to Sammel, no reason to not get involved Very Happy
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Quetzacotl
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two little (or maybe not so little) questions.

The first one is about "hide" and "sneak". We just finished our second live session yesterday and it was pointed out to me that "sneak" is not only movement but was also for hiding a person and "hide" is only for hiding objects. So I was wondering why the Camo Suit gives me bonus to hide even so it's meant to hide the person?
This question is based on the v2 R&E Rules. If youre using some other rules, be it an older version or even a houserule, I'm fine with that, just wanted to ask ^ ^

The second one is about the Power "Life Detection". How exactly do you handle that power? It confuses the hell out of me and my group.
You have to make a Very Easy (if the person is force sensitive) or Moderate (if not) Sense roll that is modified by Relationship... now that is the first Problem, WHICH Relationship? The Power is (as far as I can see it) not really directed at a specific person but at the surroundings of the person using the power.
And what about the Sense roll for approaching persons, is that modified by Relationship to the person as well?
I'm just a little confused about how the Power is supposed to work or how you want it to work in this game ^^


Btw. Mazaels comment about "a normal bountyhunter can't do anything against forceusers" is a little funny, because if you look at Life Detection, the fact that he isn't foce sensitive (should that really be the case) would actually make it more difficult to succesfully use those powers on him ^^
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Frandal
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edit: Final touches?

Name: Parn
Age: 25
Gender/Species: Male/Human

DEXTERITY 3D
Dodge 4D
Firearms 4D
Melee Combat
Missile Weapons
Vehicle Blasters
Archaic Weapons

KNOWLEDGE 2D
Alien Species
Cultures
Languages
Law Enforcement 3D
Planetary Systems
Streetwise 3D
Willpower 3D

MECHANICAL 4D
Ground Vehicle Operation
Space Transports 5D
Starfighter Piloting 6D
Repulsorlift Operation
Swoop Operation 6D
Atmospheric Vehicle Operation
Starship Gunnery 5D
Archaic Starship Piloting 5D
Sensors 5D

PERCEPTION 2D

Bargain
Con
Gambling
Hide
Investigation
Persuasion
Search 3D
Sneak

STRENGTH 3D
Brawling
Stamina

TECHNICAL 2D


Space Transport Repair:
Starfighter Repair:
Archaic Starship Repair:
Repulsorlift Repair 3D
Firearms Repair
Security

Force

Control 3D
Sense 2D

Force Powers:

Control: Accelerate Healing, Concentration, Detoxify Poison, Enhance Attribute
Sense: Life Detection, Danger Sense, Combat Sense.

Move: 10
Force Sensitive: Yes
Force Points: 2
Character Points: 0

Equipment: Combat Knife (STR+1D), Datapad, PtP link, Multitool, , Credits: 200.

Description and Background: Parn is a tall, black haried human with green eyes and a sad look on them. He used to stick around a Swoop gang, the Silvereyes, until all of them get almost killed by a rival gang and prosecuted by law. He managed to survive the last trap of the other gang, and he served some months at prison, but then they came up with an opportunity. He could join the system defenses forces as testing pilot of the new developed starfighters and reduce his time. He accepted and finally found his true vocation. Piloting. He quickly pass the adaptation time and became a capable pilot. His performance and well behavior, his gang getting in prison was a movement of the other one after all, had given him his new obtained freedom.



Quote: "If it flights I can pilot it."


Last edited by Frandal on Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:58 pm; edited 4 times in total
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vanir
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Joined: 11 May 2011
Posts: 793

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Quetz

look up the force power Life Sense rather than Life Detection. To locate a specific person you use Life Sense, to find any lifeforms within ten metres of the Force-User you use Life Detection.

If you were investigating a derelict spaceship you would use Life Detection. If you were trying to find your mom from Naboo and get a sense of how well she's doing you'd use Life Sense.

My use of hide and sneak skills is based on equipment descriptions and a House interpretation of 2E RAW in common with some suits of camoflaged armour and camoflaging shields (camofields), before R&E was released. These work like the chameleon effect in the movie "Predator", if you stand still it hides you but if you move it doesn't hide you. R&E has oversimplified some things imho and I've kept some ideas from 2E, including scaling and how some skills are used (in 2E generally more skills are required to do certain things). To make up for this I award CP more generously and frequently so PCs can advance in several skills between missions instead of just one or two.

It is indeed my neglect not to scour R&E and make a list of house rule adjustments. I may do this and make a thread of House rules actually to avoid some of this confusion. I'm sorry about that.

Hide skill is used to conceal non-moving objects, including camoflaging a PC among an environment or terrain. Generally it works against only sight, only for non-moving objects or creatures. A chameleon suit adds to the user's hide.

To conceal a moving object you use sneak skill. It includes hiding the sounds you make, careful use of terrain to move between cover or to blend into shadows and broken terrain whilst moving. Some vehicles have dampening fields to make them quieter, prevent detection by sensors, break up their outline and blend into darkness and shadow, these add to the operators sneak when trying to penetrate an enemy perimeter and sneak past sentry guards.

Sound baffling and sensor dampening adds to sneak. The armour camofield uses hide because it doesn't help you much if you're moving, it doesn't make you quieter, it doesn't dampen any sensor types, it only helps reliably if you keep still. It doesn't help you attack enemies, just to hide from them. There maybe a circumstantial bonus to sneak if the enemy is a short distance away and you stick to broken terrain whilst moving slowly and quietly.
The main purpose of the camofield is for scouts to hide from dangerous animals on wilderness planets. Special forces military armour uses sound baffling and sensor dampening together with a camofield, nightblacking or just camoflaging to add to sneak skill using a combination of those features, necessary to get up close and personal with an enemy and attack them.

======================================================

@ Frandal

The concept is perfectly fine, just a few adjustments on skill selections.

The ancient swoop uses the advanced repulsorlift specialisation: swoop operation. Being an advanced specialisation just means it's a separate skill (half CP cost due to specialisation, double CP cost due to advanced skill: becomes a separate skill even though it is really based on repulsorlift operation).

Swoops are a speederbike (using repulsorlifts) which has a booster engine for speed and altitude gains. In this period they're still custom jury rigged craft and the more dangerous, insanely fast ones might be outlawed on some worlds.

So Swoop Operation is a skill on its own.

Repulsorlifts are used in this period, it's a new technology but the Ashla Party is government subsidised so has access to these type of craft without paying the high cost civilians would for them. Repulsorlift Operation is a useful skill.

Aircraft gunnery doesn't exist as a skill, vehicles (including aircraft) use either Missile Weapons, or Vehicle Blasters skill, some military airspeeders/aircraft use cannon firearms (eg. rotary cannon) which uses Archaic Weapons skill, especially on the more backwater worlds. All these skills are Dexterity skills.

Ground vehicles and Hovercraft are still widely used on all planets. Local governments want to replace the ones using combustion engines with speeders or electric engines because of pollution, but there are still combustion versions around with small engine capacities (poor performance).

Aircraft operation is really Atmospheric Vehicle Operation describing air-breathing engines (repulsorlifts don't need an atmosphere), like jet engines and these have already become mostly replaced by repulsorlifts because they were mostly used by domestic airliners and military in the first place, and the main reason repulsorlifts replace "oil-burning" engines is because of pollution...but they're also cheaper to operate and maintain. Some backwater and heavily polluted worlds still use them, but on the vast majority of worlds you'll find airspeeders have replaced aircraft.

Space Transports skill is only really used for planetary shuttles, but is a widely used skill for this. Planetary shuttles are much more common than starships and even many cruisers use them intead of entering atmospheres. This makes starships easier and cheaper to build in this era because dimension drives and carbonite chambers makes them large and heavy for small crew compliments and making them atmospheric-capable would make them even more expensive and difficult to build. So planetary shuttles are used a lot.

For actual starships, even if they are arguably transports (like scoutships) the Archaic Starship Piloting skill is used. This is also used for capital ships. The Archaic Starship Piloting skill lets you fly just about any starship, certainly every kind of interstellar starship.

The one exception is the Corellians. They can shunt around variations of planetary shuttles between worlds using their hyperspace cannon. Many Corellian starships use Space Transports skill but rely upon the hyperspace cannon for interstellar travel and don't have a dimension drive, or carbonite chambers. Occasionally these starships get lost in space and when that happens the crew can basically look forward to death by starvation in the middle of deepspace.

Starfighter Piloting skill is used for starfighters, but they're frail, short ranged and not widely employed in this era, but larger warships often carry a handful and the major population centres like Notron, Koros, Corellia, etc. do use small numbers in their planetary security forces. Pirates do also use them. In an actual starship battle only star cruisers are really used, starfighters just aren't advanced enough to be much more than light, short ranged security craft and tactical scouts. They're not even very fast, larger craft with bigger engines and more powerful reactor cores are faster. Exploration ships 80m long might move at ratings as high as 6 or 7 whereas starfighters tend to move at a space rating of 2 to 4, but they're pretty good in atmospheres.

The skill to repair a swoop is really repulsorlift repair, some airspeeders have standard booster engines and the general skill is used for all these craft.

Since you're making a pilot PC I'll write up some more vehicles and post them in the "vehicles and starships" thread. Make sure you look in there to get an idea of the type of craft in use during this era.
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Quetzacotl
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well yes, but Life Detection has "Modified by Relationship" what always confuses me ^^

Rest sounds fine, thought something like that.
And as I already said, I thought as well that "hide" was for hiding as a person as well (that would be similiar how its handled in "The Black Eye", the PnP i usually play... don't know if you have heard of it, it's mostly know and produced in germany so I don't think that it's widely known ^^ there we have the skills "hide oneself" and "sneak").

Or, to make it short:
Ok, thanks for the clarification ^^
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Frandal
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woah thanks for all the clarifications sorry for giving you so much work Wink

I have made some modifications to the template hope this reflects better the era and the concept.

I have mantained some wills like Atmospheric Vehicle Operation because I think that they would give them at least the basis before jumping to the starships.

I didn't add the advanced swoop operation because I am not sure about the prerequisites. If I met them I could low Vehicle Blasters to add the advanced one. I think it's important the the starting skills reflects the character background somehow.

I kept the starfighter skill for it is what he loves more and that description you gave of the starfighter technology fíts perfectly with the idea of using inmates to do the testing of such machines Wink

My last, but not least, doubt is to give him Force attributes or not. Some Force powers could had gave him an edge to survive the gang fights and traps, the live at the prison and even his pilot life. I am thinking in powers like enhance attribute, concentration, danger sense,could have helped him, even if he wasnt aware that he was "using" them. I don't know if I explain myself. And he having Force powers will aid explaining why he is selected to join the mission. What do you think?
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vanir
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's okay, there's no prerequisite for Swoop Operation, it's just a separate skill from Repulsorlift Operation, even though it is a type of repulsorlift craft. You can fly a swoop using Repulsorlift Operation at something like -3D skill which is why so many people crash them. It is safer to have the separate skill Swoop Operation if you're going to use a swoop.

Just keep in mind if you choose to have Force skills, you must take the first dice in each Force skill from your base attributes. After that you can split 3D among the ones you selected.
You don't have to be a Force user, there needs to be regular crewmembers to pilot the starships, shuttles and speeders the group will be using on the mission, I was going to NPC them but they can definitely be PCs. Pilots, gunners, mechanics are all needed for the mission and will be assigned one way or the other.

There is a prison colony in the Koros system where the party is starting at. Your PC could've been imprisoned there and released on the condition that he pilots the starship and helps the Ashla on their mission. Like a good behaviour bond and parole employment. If he doesn't do his job properly they'll put him back in prison.

All the last survivors of the gang Silvereyes could've been sent to prison because of deaths in their gang war, so everybody who lived was charged with murder. Your PC might've been charged as an accessory but didn't actually kill anybody, that's why he was released on the special program to join the mission instead of doing time.

It's hard to find pilots, it's a dangerous mission.

It's up to you about the Force skills but if he has them he is not trained as an Ashla and will have to be a raw talent. He will be limited in the powers he can choose to start with and I'll have to write up some extra background for him to describe about it, so let me know if you want Force skills and I'll work with you.
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Frandal
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok Final touches it seems.

I find perfect the background you suggest. I decided to add Force Skills to him.

I change the Veichle Blaster for Swoop Operation.

I take 1D from Perception and another from Technical to have Control and Sense.

I think that we should have a very good reason for him to join the swoop gang, his young love loved the gang or even was a member of it and he joined. One brother belonged to it before him. ( This could be a good hook for him fighting the anger ) or he just found at the gang the family he didn't know. And he loved to pilot that swoop.

I suggest the following powers for him. I think all of them could be used without conscious thinking and in moments of stress and need.

Control: Accelerate Healing, Concentration, Detoxify Poison, Enhance Attribute
Sense: Life Detection, Danger Sense, Combat Sense.

I think all of them could be "explained" as adrenaline rush, "the guts tell me", luck and a good drinker. But of course you have the final word here.

I also modified his equipment, if he is on parole he shouldn't be carrying guns.
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vanir
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree completely Frandal, you've done an excellent job with him and it all fits very well.
Just one piece of advice, it's a good idea to place at least 1D skill into Search because of the way I GM vehicle combat. I make pilots use Search to find targets in combat, and in starships I make gunners use Sensors to track targets with the fire control computer.

eg. if you are piloting a swoop and being chased by security speeders, you may have to use Search next to your Swoop Operation skill (with MAP penalty) to see if the security speeders are trying to head you off or force you into a trap.

eg. or, if you are piloting a starfighter and an enemy fires at you, whilst manoeuvring and piloting you may have to use Sensors skill next to your Piloting (MAP penalty), to get them on your sensor screen and see how many there are, starfighters are small and only need to be a few kilometres away and they're very hard to see with your eyes. Plus if you try to turn around and shoot back you need them "target tracking" from your sensors so the fire control computer can line them up and you can shoot at them with the fire control bonus.

So Search skill and Sensors skill are both very good skills for a pilot, I want to tell you before you finish the character because that's how I run the vehicle combat sequences and it's not fair if I don't tell you some of the skills I will make your character use.
Wink
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Frandal
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice! I just adjusted the skills, lowering piloting skills 1D and raising both sensor and search ones. Wink

I'm happy that you like him! I think we have him ready!

We could leave the reasons of him joining the swoop gang to develope later. It's not like he is going to tell recently met people about his whole history Wink
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Frandal
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should I post Parn in the completed character thread?
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vanir
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes!
I'll introduce him very soon, the current PCs need to do something first, then I can tie him into the group very well. I'll PM you when I bring your PC "onto the screen" and then you can start posting in the Prologue thread.
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Frandal
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I've reading through it and yes, it's better to wait to introduce him.
Thanks!
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vanir
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coolies, do repost him in the completed characters thread for GM reference though, I use that thread to make rolls and design encounters that will challenge but won't wipe out the party too easily Very Happy
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Frandal
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note the key words here my fellow players... "too easily". Laughing
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