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Fallon Kell
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:30 am    Post subject: Re: Tactical Combat Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:

-Controlled Pair or "double tap"... can only be employed with semi-automatic weapons [not weapons set to burst or full auto]
Why not? It's possible to squeeze off only one round from a full auto.
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Esoomian
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
ADVANCED SKILLS

(A) Sniping

This skill encompasses the training that a military marksman goes through in order to be competent to engage targets from well beyond the normal distances at which blaster combat normally occurs.

Prerequisites: Blaster 5D, Search 5D, Scholar: Ballistics 4D


When engaged in typical combat, you may add your dice in this skill to your blaster roll, but if you do so, the benefits of ignoring distance are lost.


Some nice stuff here but in my mind sniping is about taking your time, positioning and preparing to ensure you get the best shot. With that in mind I don't see the sniping dice adding to regular blaster shots especially when the character might be firing from the hip or spraying firepower.

I'd change the rule slightly to something like this:

When engaged in typical combat, you may add your dice in this skill to your blaster roll provided you aim for at least one round before taking the shot (note this will also give a +1D bonus for aiming), but if you do so, the benefits of ignoring distance are lost.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All great feedback so far. I'm on my phon right now, so I will write more later, but regarding Esoomoan's post, the reason I allowed sniping to apply to normal shooting has nothing to do with being a sniper. The fact is that trigger time will help you to improve your skill all around. But at a higher cp cost, its more economic after a certain point to rase the base skill. Anyway, in order to be consistent with other advanced skills, I went ahead and did it that way.

As for tactical marksmanship, I made it an advanced skill because I don't see how a specialization would make sense given that specializations are supposed to be per weapon. Anyway, Ill take a look at some changes and mess around with it when I get to my computer.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thedemonapostle wrote:
ever play shadowrun? the older editions have some very thorough firearms rules that can be easily converted to star wars D6. it also has some more ideas for weapon accessories.


Never played it. Not likely I'll ever get the opportunity to look into it, unfortunately...

thedemonapostle wrote:
also, more for the shotgun/scattergun. choke rules, more various rounds, etc.


I agree. Flachette rounds, grenade rounds, breaching rounds, less lethal, etc. Not sure how I would handle modifying the choke, though (maybe decrease the bonus to hit, and increase damage at the limits of the weapon's range... but I feel like the "slugs" already do this)

thedemonapostle wrote:
if youre going to include the low accuracy and minimal failure rate of the 47K (AK-47 pattern rifles)then you might want to include the higher accuracy and the common failure rate with the M-15 (M-16/M-4/AR-15 pattern rifles). the M-9FS could use some of the same rulings as well. as could the MP5.


Well, I'm not really settled into how I want to handle malfunctions. For now the way I work it is that if the wild die comes up as a 1 AND the shot misses, the result is a malfunction... though I have toyed with the idea of making a player re-roll a 1 on the wild die. If a second 1 is rolled, the weapon malfunctions (and no shot is fired). Otherwise, count the first 1 with the normal total and determine the results from there. So, an M4 would fall into the "normal" malfunction category, rather than getting a special rule for being less reliable than an AK. Does that make sense?

thedemonapostle wrote:
also, another note on ammo. if theyre blasters using the same sized magazines as the real world base models, then i would argue that to keep the ammo capacity the same, then damage would need to increase, or ammo capacity would need to increase significantly. a common blaster pistol has 100 shots worth of power per pack, yours have 8-16. a heavy blaster pistol has 25 shots.


Actually, these rules replace the RAW in my games. So there are no such things as heavy blaster pistols that pump out 25 rounds in our campaign. Same with rifles, carbines, etc. At 100 rounds per pack, why bother tracking ammo consumption? No one will fire that many rounds in an encounter.

thedemonapostle wrote:
bolt actions-make it more like the revolver/shotgun/lever gun rounds. it simplifies the whole thing, as is one of the whole points of a bolt gun vs a semi- or auto-.


I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that the shooter should be able to select and load individual rounds (which is perfectly fine, if no mag is loaded). But with a mag inserted, you'd have to drop the mag to load a specific round unless you want to cause a malfunction.

thedemonapostle wrote:
combat life saver- dont know about you but during my cls training we were trained to use that craptacular first aid kit to stabilizer as best we could. this meant that as long as we were providing care as best as our training allowed we could sustain their life for a short period of time. usually up to the point were a combat medic took over and used superior skills and our med kit to improve the situation from critical to stable.


That's exactly what the special rule is supposed to do, although, as written, it does allow a character to get back into the action. Anyway, slapping a tourniquet and/or a pressure bandage on, preventing shock, sustaining hydration, etc is supposed to ensure that the character receiving aid doesn't die right away and his friends have a little more time to get competent help.

thedemonapostle wrote:
CQB-id argue that this covers all forms of combat in tight quarters. not just ranged.


I agree, although I wasn't really interested in making too complex (or too powerful) of a skill. To address that issue, some of the other rules I put up there deal with this thought train, though (such as "back to my tools" and "pain compliance"), which I figure would likely be part of the overall "suite" of skills that an operator would have.

thedemonapostle wrote:
sniping and tactical marksmanship-you certainly did cover the aspect of video game skills here.
to better reflect real world crossing over into D6 you would need more skill prerequisites such as hide and sneak for the sniping. for tactical marksmanship- ive been there done that got the scars to prove it. this shouldnt be an advanced skill. i feel that it should be a specialization of the blaster or firearm skills. its easy to learn and quick to become an expert at. i say specialization over advanced skill because specializations have a much more limited use when youre using the base skill. whereas an advanced skills are generally used when ever youre using t6he base skill, kinda like first aid and medicine. .


I've run the idea about sniping though this forum before, and the feedback I got made a lot of sense to me. I agree that to be a worthwhile SNIPER, you'd need skills such as sneak, hide, survival, search, and some others. However, those skills already do what they are supposed to do, and have no real effect on the shooter's ability to hit a target. The sniping skill was designed simply to cover the shooting aspect of the job, so that even someone who isn't a "sniper" could learn to shoot very far on a consistent basis.

As for the tactical marksmanship, I'm not sure I follow with the specialization. Specializations are per weapon, aren't they? I don't have specific real world experience with this type of training or engagement, so I'll defer to you, here. Although I feel like it's more significant to the player to make an advanced skill that they can work toward and invest in. Do you think that if it were to be an advanced skill and not a specialization, it should be more powerful (+2 per D in the skill, for example)?

thedemonapostle wrote:
optics-glad to see someone besides me trying to do something for this. medium, long and sniper scopes. the first 2 are fine maybe add the words fixed magnification to their names. fact sniper scopes are the same things you can get for your hunting rifle. so maybe chance it from a sniper scope to extreme range scope. the variable magnification scope-these scope usually go between two categories of ranges, short to medium, medium to long, long to extreme, short to long, medium to extreme. but a short to extreme range scope will generally cost you more than 1000 for a decent quality scope.


So, more options? More specific? I like it, though I have been known to over-complicate things, which is why I tried to hold back on some things, like optics (I felt what I already had up there was getting to be a little overwhelming already)

thedemonapostle wrote:
sights are generally off. I/R lasers are generally as you stated, but have a limited range and high power consumption.


True. I always meant for them to be usable only out to short range, and this should have been covered in the laser sight as well. Though I know of some laser sights that are clearly visible out beyond 100 feet, at that range, the laser would be bouncing around so much anyway, that it would be less useful than iron sights or even open sights.

thedemonapostle wrote:

tactical sights, if youre referring to the ACOG/reflex sights then yes thy are easier to use and provide bonuses at short to medium or greater ranges based on their type. but if youre referring to upgraded iron sights/open sights, then no bonuses should really be applied. most refer to these as tacti-cool. and theyre installed as a backup should the scope be damaged or fail in some way.


Actually, I'm referring mostly to the tritium or night sights usually on pistols. Consider, for example, the sights on a GI 1911... worthless in low light or even broad daylight sometimes. Having the little glowing dots to line up really helps with faster sight acquisition. Having something similiar on an AK would help, too.

Essentially, weapons that come with sights that have no provision for low light, darkness, or stress-fire situations would benefit from this type of sight. A flip up sight on a typical AR-style rifle would not benefit from this upgrade, since the sights are already easy to acquire. I hope that clarifies things.

thedemonapostle wrote:
bead sight-this is usually the least accurate of all sights on weapons, it that stupid little ball welded onto the end of your barrel, commonly installed on shotguns. there typically is no rear sight though you can use the top of the barrel and/or the receiver to assist in aiming.


Right. There is maybe one situation I can think of where a bead would be preferable to a ghost ring or rifle sights... though I'm not sure if I have expressed it in the best possible way. I simply included it as reference point to base the other options off of. Essentially, a tritium or "glowy" bead sight might be useful over a "stock" bead sight, since it's easier to see, but other than that, they are for quick acquisition in close quarters, and when where you hit specifically is not as important as just getting a round on target as fast as possible.

thedemonapostle wrote:
bipod vs tripod. bipods can fold up into the weapon and are easily portable and provide decent stabilization. tripods cannot be folded up into the weapon and not easily transportable but do provide significant stabilization, provided the surface the tripod is on/attached to is stable.


Yeah, I should clarify this more. I can conceive of a tripod design that would be attachable to the weapon and fold up in a similar fashion to the bipod, but it definitely needs more work at least for clarity.

thedemonapostle wrote:


weapon smithing-please add how long it takes to do each one, cost-if dont by self or if paying someone else. legality as well.

another thing, wheres the "dump the mag into him" rules? (firing fully automatic)


Weapon smithing: I figured GMs could rule on that. Though, I meant for it take as long as it takes for +1 pip in RAW. Legality would depend on campaign, I think.

The rules for fully auto are supposed to take that very issue into account. Maybe they are not clear enough? How are you interpreting them? I might need to adjust the wording depending on how it reads to someone other than myself.

I appreciate all the thought you put into that post, thank you. Very Happy
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:16 am    Post subject: Re: Tactical Combat Reply with quote

Fallon Kell wrote:
Naaman wrote:

-Controlled Pair or "double tap"... can only be employed with semi-automatic weapons [not weapons set to burst or full auto]
Why not? It's possible to squeeze off only one round from a full auto.


In heated battle, it's not so easy to let off only 1 or 2 rounds. Also, if you're trying to fire exactly two rounds with exactly two pulls of the trigger, in less than 1 second, good luck on that.

Also, the rules for full auto cover the bonus that would be gained from multiple hits on target. It is smaller per round fired, but this is because where the subsequent rounds hit is less controllable than with a well-placed double tap, which essentially causes "overlapping" damage to the target. While full-autos MAY hit close enough together to have this effect, the distance to the target and the strength of the recoil have a significant effect on this (not to mention the shooter's skill, but that is a given in any situation).

Can you explain your interpretation of the full auto as I've written it? I'm thinking I may have botched the write up. Embarassed
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thedemonapostle
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
thedemonapostle wrote:
ever play shadowrun? the older editions have some very thorough firearms rules that can be easily converted to star wars D6. it also has some more ideas for weapon accessories.


Never played it. Not likely I'll ever get the opportunity to look into it, unfortunately...


take a look at it via .pdf you might find something of worth or at the very least something that can be added to your campaigns.

Naaman wrote:
thedemonapostle wrote:
also, more for the shotgun/scattergun. choke rules, more various rounds, etc.


I agree. Flachette rounds, grenade rounds, breaching rounds, less lethal, etc. Not sure how I would handle modifying the choke, though (maybe decrease the bonus to hit, and increase damage at the limits of the weapon's range... but I feel like the "slugs" already do this)


a slug is the most accurate of shotgun rounds.
out of a tactical shotgun, shot rounds (buck included) are affective out to, iirc, 30 feet. Though it could have been 30 yards.
Also because its basically a shotgun people are gonna want that variety. Dragons breath, stun rounds, etc
Also, need your take on choke rules.

Naaman wrote:
thedemonapostle wrote:
if youre going to include the low accuracy and minimal failure rate of the 47K (AK-47 pattern rifles)then you might want to include the higher accuracy and the common failure rate with the M-15 (M-16/M-4/AR-15 pattern rifles). the M-9FS could use some of the same rulings as well. as could the MP5.


Well, I'm not really settled into how I want to handle malfunctions. For now the way I work it is that if the wild die comes up as a 1 AND the shot misses, the result is a malfunction... though I have toyed with the idea of making a player re-roll a 1 on the wild die. If a second 1 is rolled, the weapon malfunctions (and no shot is fired). Otherwise, count the first 1 with the normal total and determine the results from there. So, an M4 would fall into the "normal" malfunction category, rather than getting a special rule for being less reliable than an AK. Does that make sense?

This does make it simpler if using civilian grade weaponry. In the real world, military grade weapons arent held to the same manufacturing process standard as civilian grade. You go down and buy a 100% legal to own M-4 for civilian use and it is more reliable that its military counterpart. Weapon has a catastrophic failure in the military they blame the user first then maybe later the armorer. Rarely are they sent back to the manufacturer. In the civilian world if a weapon has a catastrophic failure, everyone blames the manufacturer. So the manufacturer makes them better to avoid lawsuits.

Naaman wrote:
thedemonapostle wrote:
also, another note on ammo. if theyre blasters using the same sized magazines as the real world base models, then i would argue that to keep the ammo capacity the same, then damage would need to increase, or ammo capacity would need to increase significantly. a common blaster pistol has 100 shots worth of power per pack, yours have 8-16. a heavy blaster pistol has 25 shots.


Actually, these rules replace the RAW in my games. So there are no such things as heavy blaster pistols that pump out 25 rounds in our campaign. Same with rifles, carbines, etc. At 100 rounds per pack, why bother tracking ammo consumption? No one will fire that many rounds in an encounter.


You wouldn’t be so quick to say that if youd played with me few years back. Our gm was crazy and we went through ammo like cold drinks on a hot day. Just a thought, but extended magazines do exist for up to 100 rounds for most real world guns, that is provided that they accept a detachable magazine.

Naaman wrote:
thedemonapostle wrote:
bolt actions-make it more like the revolver/shotgun/lever gun rounds. it simplifies the whole thing, as is one of the whole points of a bolt gun vs a semi- or auto-.


I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that the shooter should be able to select and load individual rounds (which is perfectly fine, if no mag is loaded). But with a mag inserted, you'd have to drop the mag to load a specific round unless you want to cause a malfunction.

Sorry for the lack of clarity. I think they should be self contained blaster round in a cartridge. It would pretty much be like shooting a real world bolt action rifle but with a blaster round instead. And no I wouldn’t let them be interchangeable with a slug shooter bolt action rifle.
And if the rifle accepts a detachable magazine, provided said ma is loaded like real world mags then it wouldn’t jam if you wanted to throw in a specific round rater than what was in the mag. Youd just shove it in there and go, need to make sure it doesn’t double feed but on a bolt gun that’s easy.

Naaman wrote:
thedemonapostle wrote:
sniping and tactical marksmanship-you certainly did cover the aspect of video game skills here.
to better reflect real world crossing over into D6 you would need more skill prerequisites such as hide and sneak for the sniping. for tactical marksmanship- ive been there done that got the scars to prove it. this shouldnt be an advanced skill. i feel that it should be a specialization of the blaster or firearm skills. its easy to learn and quick to become an expert at. i say specialization over advanced skill because specializations have a much more limited use when youre using the base skill. whereas an advanced skills are generally used when ever youre using t6he base skill, kinda like first aid and medicine. .


I've run the idea about sniping though this forum before, and the feedback I got made a lot of sense to me. I agree that to be a worthwhile SNIPER, you'd need skills such as sneak, hide, survival, search, and some others. However, those skills already do what they are supposed to do, and have no real effect on the shooter's ability to hit a target. The sniping skill was designed simply to cover the shooting aspect of the job, so that even someone who isn't a "sniper" could learn to shoot very far on a consistent basis.

As for the tactical marksmanship, I'm not sure I follow with the specialization. Specializations are per weapon, aren't they? I don't have specific real world experience with this type of training or engagement, so I'll defer to you, here. Although I feel like it's more significant to the player to make an advanced skill that they can work toward and invest in. Do you think that if it were to be an advanced skill and not a specialization, it should be more powerful (+2 per D in the skill, for example)?


A sniper is in my opinion 99% all other skills and 1% shooting. Whereas Infantrymen live for shooting hundreds of thousands of rounds, a sniper lives for that one perfect shot.

RE: Blaster specializations.
"Blaster…Specializations: A specific type or model of character-scale blaster weapon — blaster pistol, heavy blaster pistol, blaster rifle, BlasTech DL-44, hold-out blaster."
-Star Wars Rulebook 2nd Edition (Revised) (page 38)
"Characters can choose to specialize in a skill- this means they know a great deal more about one very specific aspect of a certain skill. For example, a character with the blaster skill may choose to specialize in blaster pistol, blaster rifle, hold-out blaster, or repeating blasters. The most common specializations for each skill are listed on the "Skill List," but the players and gamemasters may come up with new specializations."
-Star Wars 2nd Rulebook (page 10)

RE: Advanced Skills: "Advanced skills are listed on the templates and skill list with an (A) in front of them. They represent very advanced specialized areas of knowledge that characters cannot attempt unskilled."
-Star Wars 2nd Rulebook (page 10)

RE: Tactical Marksmanship and Sniping. Can players attempt to do these things even if they don’t have any skill in them?
I would argue that yes they can. They might completely and 100% suck at it, but they can attempt it. thus the argument for it being a specialization.

Naaman wrote:
thedemonapostle wrote:
optics-glad to see someone besides me trying to do something for this. medium, long and sniper scopes. the first 2 are fine maybe add the words fixed magnification to their names. fact sniper scopes are the same things you can get for your hunting rifle. so maybe chance it from a sniper scope to extreme range scope. the variable magnification scope-these scope usually go between two categories of ranges, short to medium, medium to long, long to extreme, short to long, medium to extreme. but a short to extreme range scope will generally cost you more than 1000 for a decent quality scope.


So, more options? More specific? I like it, though I have been known to over-complicate things, which is why I tried to hold back on some things, like optics (I felt what I already had up there was getting to be a little overwhelming already)


People like options. Don’t really need to make it complicated. Something simple and easy. Something like the optics only work within their specified area of operation, trying to use it outside of that area would incur a penalty.

Naaman wrote:
thedemonapostle wrote:

tactical sights, if youre referring to the ACOG/reflex sights then yes thy are easier to use and provide bonuses at short to medium or greater ranges based on their type. but if youre referring to upgraded iron sights/open sights, then no bonuses should really be applied. most refer to these as tacti-cool. and theyre installed as a backup should the scope be damaged or fail in some way.


Actually, I'm referring mostly to the tritium or night sights usually on pistols. Consider, for example, the sights on a GI 1911... worthless in low light or even broad daylight sometimes. Having the little glowing dots to line up really helps with faster sight acquisition. Having something similiar on an AK would help, too.
Essentially, weapons that come with sights that have no provision for low light, darkness, or stress-fire situations would benefit from this type of sight. A flip up sight on a typical AR-style rifle would not benefit from this upgrade, since the sights are already easy to acquire. I hope that clarifies things.

Ok, needed clarity from ya on that one. The glowing sight would be useful in a low light situation where you can still see your target. But in a no light situation being able to see your sights is still just as useless, as being blind.

Naaman wrote:
thedemonapostle wrote:
bead sight-this is usually the least accurate of all sights on weapons, it that stupid little ball welded onto the end of your barrel, commonly installed on shotguns. there typically is no rear sight though you can use the top of the barrel and/or the receiver to assist in aiming.


Right. There is maybe one situation I can think of where a bead would be preferable to a ghost ring or rifle sights... though I'm not sure if I have expressed it in the best possible way. I simply included it as reference point to base the other options off of. Essentially, a tritium or "glowy" bead sight might be useful over a "stock" bead sight, since it's easier to see, but other than that, they are for quick acquisition in close quarters, and when where you hit specifically is not as important as just getting a round on target as fast as possible.


In a well lit situation, having a glowing sight is still useless. In a low light or no light situation you have that whole lack of light penalty. Depending on the lighting you might get a bonus that will offset the light penalty.

Naaman wrote:
thedemonapostle wrote:
bipod vs tripod. bipods can fold up into the weapon and are easily portable and provide decent stabilization. tripods cannot be folded up into the weapon and not easily transportable but do provide significant stabilization, provided the surface the tripod is on/attached to is stable.


Yeah, I should clarify this more. I can conceive of a tripod design that would be attachable to the weapon and fold up in a similar fashion to the bipod, but it definitely needs more work at least for clarity.


Bipods are small and easily portable by everyones standards. Tripods are usually big and only portable by military standards. Look up the weights of common bipods and tripods.

Naaman wrote:
thedemonapostle wrote:


weapon smithing-please add how long it takes to do each one, cost-if dont by self or if paying someone else. legality as well.

another thing, wheres the "dump the mag into him" rules? (firing fully automatic)


Weapon smithing: I figured GMs could rule on that. Though, I meant for it take as long as it takes for +1 pip in RAW. Legality would depend on campaign, I think.

The rules for fully auto are supposed to take that very issue into account. Maybe they are not clear enough? How are you interpreting them? I might need to adjust the wording depending on how it reads to someone other than myself.

I appreciate all the thought you put into that post, thank you. Very Happy


Naaman wrote:

Automatic

Holding the trigger down will continuously cycle the action until the trigger is released. Automatic weapons will have a "fire rate" which determines the number of "shots" fired with a single action. These shots can be used 1 of 2 ways:
-Area target: ammo is expended, and a bonus equal to the number of rounds fired is applied to the attack roll. A successful hit deals the weapon's base damage.
-Point target: ammo is expended with the intention of hitting the target with all of the rounds. A penalty is applied to the attack roll equal to the number of rounds fired, and a bonus of +1 (not +1D) is applied to damage for each round fired. This function can be combined with "leading burst" (above) to offset the attack roll penalty, in exchange for a significant expenditure of ammo.

Regardless of which option is selected, anytime an automatic weapon is fired, in addition to the ammo discharged with each burst, 1D6-2 rounds of ammo are expended without effect.


I guess I missed it entirely the fire time around sorry.
A note on shooting at area targets, think more of it as an update to the old archer tactic known as a rain of death. You're shooting at the area and just covering it with rounds. If anybody is out in the open, then hey more power to ya. If not then you're just doing more of a suppressive fire, possible as a tactic to allow allies to move into a better position, offensively or defensively. Or maybe you're just tormenting the target.
Regarding shooting a point target with full auto: This is possibly the most deadly option available to an automatic gunner. If the target is alive when you started, then a character scale target usually isn't afterwards.
Also, need to clarify since this is a tactical combat discussion, what cyclic, sustain/effective, and rapid fire rates are. I can tell you their pure definitions: from wikipedia, cause they're better at typing than I.
Quote:

Cyclic rate
This is the mechanical rate of fire, or how fast the weapon "cycles" (loads, locks, fires, unlocks, ejects). Measurement of the cyclic rate assumes that the weapon is being operated as fast as possible and does not consider operator tasks (magazine changes, aiming, etc.). When the trigger is squeezed, the rate at which rounds are fired is the cyclic rate. Typical cyclic rates of fire are 460–900 RPM for assault rifles, 1,000-1,100 RPM in some cases, 900-1,200 RPM for submachine guns and machine pistols, and 600-1,200 RPM for machine guns. M134 Miniguns mounted on helicopters can achieve rates of fire of over 100 rounds per second (6,000 RPM).

Sustained or Effective rate
This is the rate at which the weapon could reasonably be fired indefinitely without failing. In contrast to the cyclic rate, the sustained rate is the actual rate at which the weapon would typically be fired in combat. Sustained rate considers several factors, time spent reloading, aiming, changing barrels if necessary, and allowing for some cooling. Knowing the sustained rate of fire is useful to know for logistics and supply purposes. Machine guns are typically fired in short bursts rather than in long continuous streams of fire, although there are times when they must be fired in very long bursts (see rapid rate below). Sustained rate also applies to box magazine fed assault rifles and semi-automatic rifles. In these weapons it refers to the rate at which the typical rifleman can effectively engage targets in a combat situation. The rate is usually 12-15 rpm, except for barrel changes it considers most of the same factors as for the belt fed MGs.

Rapid rate
Rapid rate is a rate of fire between Cyclic and Sustained. It is usually much faster, although less accurate, than the sustained rate and is only used in emergency/final defensive line situations. The Rapid rate is not sustainable for long periods because it eats up a significant amount of ammunition (more than the gunner or assistant gunner are likely to carry on a patrol), the heat generated requires barrel change times to be reduced, and because machine guns are only issued with one spare barrel prolonged rapid fire will result in shortened weapon/barrel life. The Neal submachine gun came with 5 barrels to overcome this problem.

Semi-Automatic rate
The semi-automatic rate is the assault rifle/semi-auto only version on rapid fire. It is the maximum rate that a weapon can fire with any degree of accuracy in semi-auto mode, usually 45-60 rpm.


but we are going to need something based on this, if for nothing else so players can sound like they know what theyre taking about.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I based most of these rules on my own military experience and how I prefer to fight. With regard to the rates of fire, I found them more or less useless in real world scenarios. Even when sitting behind my M2 in Iraq, I founnd it to be most useful as a pointand shoot, rather than a "suppressive" implement. Since our ROE required us to have PID before pulling the trigger, I never let off more than 3 or 4 rounds at a time, and only when shooting directly at a target (usually through cover, after taking fire from the other side of that cover).

Same with my SAW, but not through cover. Only used it once, though.

Anyway, as for tripods, if you're talking about the crew served weapons type, that is for sure too big to be useful to PCs. I was imagining an accessory like a bipod, but with three legs instead of two... for crying ot loud: have you seen those "tactical" monopods.. lol. I always felt that if the bipod on my SAW had a ... ahem... third leg... it would be much more useful as a stabilizer, since the bipod has a tendency to slip forward when pressing into the buttsrock with the shoulder.

Ill see if I can figure sommething out for shotgun chokes. According to what I remember about effective range, the Mossberg is suppoaed to be good for 50 meters with buck shot. This of course depends on a vast amount of variables, including load, but I doubt most gamers would care about such nuance.

Ill write some more later when I have access to a computer.
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thedemonapostle
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i was infantry. a grunt. 11B3OC. not sure how i got the nbc specialty, since i only ever did anything for it in basic. would have been nice to have any of my other skills there rather than that. oh well.

bipods, tripods, monopods, etc. maybe we should change this to include fixed mount, like the big freaking tripods for the M2 and MK19 and the turret mounts from vehicles, and the foldable mount, like the under barrel bipods, monopods, small tripods, etc.

maybe something like a 1-2 pip bonus for each leg the pod has per round of aiming/use to a maximum of 3 stable rounds worth providing a maximum of 1D-3D of a stabilization bonus.

i had a swat teacher tell me once years ago that after about 30 (feet or yards i called recall) buckshot is wildly ineffective from the service shotgun. it will however still kill but usually not what your aiming at.

had another recently tell me that after a short distance buck shots accuracy is about as good as the NYPD (it was said shortly after they fired something like 90+ rounds at a suspect and somewhere around only 5 hit their target).


also for the blaster shotguns do keep in mind we're talking about futuristic types of weapons. which might just have an electronic choke adjust right there on the weapon by some kind of a safety.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A new rule just came to mind for aiming. I always hated the idea that "aiming" takes a whole round or more, and that the longer you stare at your target, the bigger your bonus. In reality, you either have good aim or you do not. It doesn't take 3 rounds/15 seconds (!) to line up your sights on a stationary target. And if the target moves, you just wasted the last 14 seconds.

Anyway, here's my new take. I'll. add it to the first post after some feedback.

Aiming allows you to take a moment to ensure that your sights are lined up on target at the expense of slowing down your shot. You may choose to take a penalty to your initiative of up to -5 in order to gain an inverse bonus on your attack roll (up to +5). Note that actions other than aiming/shooting are resolved normally (even un-aimed shots).

Shoot from the hip: this is the oposite of aiming. Bonus to initiative and penalty to attack roll. However, the penalty to attack is doubled. So going for a +5 on your initiative would result in a -10 on your attack roll.

Called shots: This new interpretation would affect called shots, as well. In effect, aiming would offset the penalty for called shots. However, due to this change (and for the sake of suspension of disbelief) called shots can only be declared within short or point blank range UNLESS the shooter has an optic (or Force power or super alien sight, etc.) that allows him to call shots at greater distances.


Last edited by Naaman on Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
A new. rule just came to mind for aiming. I always hated the idea that "aiming" takes a whole round or more, and that the longer you stare at your target, the bigger your bonus. In reality, you either have good aim or you do not..


Hows about run it like some other systems do. Spend an action to aim and your next shot gets a bonus equal to +1 pip per full die you have in perception?
If you still opt for the full round aiming, then you get a bonus equal to your perception..?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if your perception sucks, tuen the MAP offsets or even overpowers the perception bonus. Also, I feel that something like aiming should be completely covered by the blaster skill, since the ability to hit a target is primarily what the skill represents. Crossing into the another attribute does have its merits, but in this particular scenario, it doesn't feel right to me.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Well, if your perception sucks, tuen the MAP offsets or even overpowers the perception bonus. Also, I feel that something like aiming should be completely covered by the blaster skill, since the ability to hit a target is primarily what the skill represents. Crossing into the another attribute does have its merits, but in this particular scenario, it doesn't feel right to me.


i agree with ya on this one. i knew guys that could shoot exceptionally well, but were about as observant as a bat at a rock concert. also knew guys that wore BCG's thicker than coke bottles that were more perceptive than a hawk but couldnt shoot worth beans.
the perception attribute should stay as a persons skills and natural ability of situational awareness. whereas the blaster skill represents a persons ability(ies) to shoot blasters.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
A new. rule just came to mind for aiming. I always hated the idea that "aiming" takes a whole round or more, and that the longer you stare at your target, the bigger your bonus. In reality, you either have good aim or you do not. It doesn't take 3 rounds/ 15 seconds (!) to line up your sights on a stationary target. And if the target moves, you just wasted the last 14 seconds.

Anyway, here's my new take. I'll. add it to the first post after some feedback.

Aiming allows you to take a moment to ensure that your sights are lined up on target at thexpense of slowing down your shot. You may choose to take a penalty to your initiative of up to -5 in order to gain an inverse bonus on your attack roll (up to +5). Note that actions other than aiming/shooting are resolved normally (even un-aimed shots).

Shoot from the hip: this is the oposite of aiming. Bonus to initiative and penalty to attack roll.

Called shots: This new interpretation would affect called shots, as well. In effect, aiming would offset the penalty for called shots. However, due to this change (and for the sake of suspension of disbelief) called shots can only be declared within short or point blank range UNLESS the shooter has an optic (or Force power or super aloen sight etc) that allows him to call shots at greater distances.


I'm really liking this, and considering running it by my group tomorrow night.

I am having trouble figuring out what the line "or super aloen sight etc" means, though (I realize it's likely a typo, but can't puzzle out what was intended).

Is that "super alien sight"? (like an alien ability?)
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are correct sir. I fat-fingered the "I" in "alien." You always know when I'm posting on my phone when there are multiple typos in my posts because the interface is such a PITA.

Anyway, watch out for how this rule interacts with multiple actions. I figure if the aimong happens in the second or subsequent action, Others making a second action can act according to the adjusted inititave (this migjt put the shooter lower in initiative count than his roll would have. otherwise for that shot only)..
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thedemonapostle wrote:

also for the blaster shotguns do keep in mind we're talking about futuristic types of weapons. which might just have an electronic choke adjust right there on the weapon by some kind of a safety.


Me likes. 8)

Let's try this:

Some scatterguns are equipped with a selector switch that allows the shooter to choose between a narrower (more deadly) pattern, and a standard (higher hit rate) pattern. Some weapons will only allow the shooter to choose one or two of the choke options below, while others will allow all three. Generally, this feature increases the cost of the weapon by 300 (only one additional option), 500 (two additional options), or 700 credits (all three additional options).

Improved Cylinder
Accuracy: +2/+5/+4/miss/miss
Damage: 6D+2 (4D+2 at medium range; any die that rolls a "1" may be re-rolled)

Modified
Accuracy: +2/+4/+3/miss/miss
Damage: 6D+2 (5D at medium range)

Full
Accuracy: +2/+3/+2/miss/miss
Damage: 6D+2 (5D+1 at medium range)

Also, let's look at some other options for ammo...

Turbo Penetrator
Accuracy: +2/+2/+0/-20/miss
Damage: 6D+2 (ignores 1D or 2D of armor)
These rounds are somewhat larger (longer) than standard scattergun rounds, and so take up the space of two rounds of ammo (in effect, a fully loaded scattergun with turbo penetrators would have a capacity of 3+1). They work by firing two separate blasts in very quick succession. The first blast hits and damages or destroys the surface impacted, making a clear path for the second blast to hit the flesh of the target. The cost for the weaker rounds is typically 15 credits per round, while the more powerful rounds cost as much as 50 credits per round (or more, depending on the local laws and taxes).

Shield Breaker
Accuracy: +2/+2/+0/-20/miss
Damage: 6D+2
Developed as a successor to the turbo penetrator, this round fires an ion blast just ahead of the normal blaster bolt. Against a target with a shield generator, increase the damage dealt by 3D. This bonus damage does not apply if the target is not protected by shields. These rounds generally cost 100 credits a piece.

Stun Shells
Accuracy: +2/+5/+5/miss/miss
Damage: 6D+2 (Stun only)
These rounds are available at the same price as standard ammo.

thedemonapostle wrote:

maybe something like a 1-2 pip bonus for each leg the pod has per round of aiming/use to a maximum of 3 stable rounds worth providing a maximum of 1D-3D of a stabilization bonus.


A variation on this could also work out nicely. The following will cover bipods/tripods for personally carried weapons (up to medium machine gun, although light machine guns and up shall have provisions for being mounted on larger rigs, to allow for more fire control) Generally, sniper rifles and SDM rifles, as well as tactical precision rifles will commonly have the following set ups.

Light Bipod
When the shooter is aiming, provides a +2 fire control bonus on attack rolls with the weapon mounted on it. Setting up this bipod requires one action. The weapon my be fired without using the bipod (such as when on the move, or at any other time) without the bipod interfering with the shots, even if the legs are still extended.

Light Tripod
When the shooter is aiming, provides a +1D fire control bonus on attack rolls with the weapon mounted on it. Setting up this tripod requires one action. The weapon my be fired without using the tripod (such as when on the move, or at any other time) without the tripod interfering with the shots, even if the legs are still extended.

High Stability Bipod
When the shooter is aiming, provides a +2 fire control bonus on attack rolls with the weapon mounted on it. In addition, the penalty to initiative from aiming is reduced by half (round fractions up, so that a +5 bonus to hit results in a -3 penalty to initiative). Setting up this bipod requires two actions. A weapon equipped with this bipod imposes a -4 penalty on attack rolls with it, unless the bipod is being properly utilized.

High Stability Tripod
When the shooter is aiming, provides a +1D fire control bonus on attack rolls with the weapon mounted on it. In addition, the penalty to initiative from aiming is reduced by half (round fractions up, so that a +5 bonus to hit results in a -3 penalty to initiative). Setting up this tripod requires three actions. A weapon equipped with this tripod imposes a -6 penalty on attack rolls with it, unless the tripod is being properly utilized.

Well, there's for starters... I feel like it needs more thought, though... Confused


Last edited by Naaman on Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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