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Limited Jump Navcomputers
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon The Lion wrote:

Or mabe purging an astromech's hyperjump buffer does not actually require a lengthy and complicated memory wipe of the whole droid brain, but can be done as quickly and simply as deleting data from a modern flash drive. The moment the Rebels see Imperials in persuit, their astromechs just execute "format C:", or whatever drive the nav data is stored on, and that's the end of it. The only way to capture Rebel hyperjump data would be then to get them by complete surprise, hitting the droid with an ion weapon to disable it and prevent it from deleting the data - which by itself may pose a risk of deleting or at least damaging it.


I don't think that's feasible. I mean not the quick purging stuff, I'll accept that- but what I don't accept is that the rebels can afford to purge the astrogation data. Doing that strands the fighter, which means the rebels lose a ship, and a pilot. It also means the Empire can pick up and interrogate the pilot.
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DougRed4
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But surely losing said pilot and/or ship is far better than giving away the location of your secret base!

Nobody ever answered my earlier question, where I pointed out that in my campaign, our group has two Jedi Starfighters (each a Star Saber XC-01), and each says "Can store coordinates for 2 hyperspace jumps". Does that mean they can only hold two jumps total (to and from one location)? And being thousands of years old, what are the ramifications when dealing with modern astrogation?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recall mention in one of the X-Wing novels (can't remember which) to the effect that combat astromechs were highly resistant to data intrusion attempts.

Also, in the Black Fleet Trilogy, when faced with potential capture, the Recon X-Wings used a shaped charge to destroy their astromech before activating their own self destructs.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DougRed4 wrote:
But surely losing said pilot and/or ship is far better than giving away the location of your secret base!

Nobody ever answered my earlier question, where I pointed out that in my campaign, our group has two Jedi Starfighters (each a Star Saber XC-01), and each says "Can store coordinates for 2 hyperspace jumps". Does that mean they can only hold two jumps total (to and from one location)? And being thousands of years old, what are the ramifications when dealing with modern astrogation?


To me that means they get jumps from point A to B, and from point B to C.
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DougRed4
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, garhkal. But then, if they wanted to jump back to point A again, do they have to start new calculations? Wait a certain amount of time?

As I understand things, they could 'store' (in the case above) points B and C, but then wouldn't have any more points stored in their system. So if they jumped from A to B to C, they could only jump to either of those (B or C), and if they wanted to go anywhere else (A, D, E, F, etc.) they'd have to start making astrogation/navicomputer calculations all over again.
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Leon The Lion
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeing as traveling from B to A is the same as traveling from A to B, only in reverse, personally I'd allow travel in both directions using a single stored "jump".

For my own game, I use the following rules:

A pre-calculated jump will “keep” for about a month (20+2D days). After that it should be re-calculated or risk a mishap.

The difficulty of re-calculating a stored jump is the basic difficulty -5, +1 per 1D days the jump is “expired”, up to the normal basic difficulty.

When using an “expired” pre-calculated jump, roll 1D, +1 per 1D days the jump is “expired”. A total of 6 indicates a jump mishap occurs. Roll on the Astrogation Mishap Table.

Many starports offer “fresh” pre-calculated jump data to typical destinations for download at a modest fee (50 - 200 Cr).
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Seeing as traveling from B to A is the same as traveling from A to B, only in reverse, personally I'd allow travel in both directions using a single stored "jump".


Not sure i would agree that reversing the trajectory is that easy.
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jmanski
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I think there has to be some sort of time constraint, as well. You can't plot a jump and take it a month later; stuff in space moves and that needs to be reflected somewhere.

I remember one of the Zahn trilogy referencing a freighter Mara was piloting had a course preset and it took considerably less time to calculate since it had only been a week or something, but it needed to be calculated for safety.
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Leon The Lion
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Not sure i would agree that reversing the trajectory is that easy.

The differences should be small enough as not to matter, at least at the level of detail I'm willing to go into myself. This is space, not a road system, in which, for example, some streets may be only one way, forcing you to choose a different route when going one way than going another. You can easily fully retrace your course, only in reverse.


jmanski wrote:
And I think there has to be some sort of time constraint, as well. (...)

I did propose one, yes.
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vanir
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our House interpretation of strict RAW is "2 sets of jump coordinates stored"
Meaning point of origin is irrelevent, these are destinations. Presumably the sensor window takes current astronomical posititioning data and this is used in manual calculation of the specific jump, to the coordinates stored, from anywhere. You can jump to either from anywhere, meaning an A-Wing can store an attack coordinates and a rendezvous coordinates following the attack, and calculate the first jump from another staging point, but the jump to the 1st destination is done by calculating current astronomical position references in conjunction with the destination coordinates. In fact you can take that A-Wing to the area a dozen times and it can jump to either location within range at normal difficulties, from anywhere you care to drop it off, until the navcomputer is reprogrammed. And keep in mind they can still jump to elsewhere, the difficulties are simply the same has "no navcomputer", but if you're a talent it's no problem. Starfighters usually don't go far.

That would mean Imperials couldn't download base locations (cruisers take the starfighters to those), but they could get unquestionable evidence of the last attack that starfighter was involved in.
Well, unless we're dealing with a small, forward X-Wing base that uses astromechs on all craft to ensure several coordinates are stored, including the base coordinates, and the starfighters operate within range of the base.
But the Imperials would already have to have some kind of bead on that base to be in the area to catch one of those starfighters and download the base location. They'd have to already be hot on the rebel's tails. Then it's an Echo Base situation and totally SWRPG Very Happy
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree, per RAW it takes roughly 30 minutes to calculate a hyerpspace jump. This takes into all sorts of things including, spatial drift, space hazards, the shortest route, etc. This means the path must be calculate from point to point. If you are going from the methodology there is nothing between you and your destination and its a straight line then yes point of origin doesn't matter, but that is not how astrogation calculations are explained.

That is not to say you cannot change it to fit your game I am just pointing out RAW. Below are the rules I was able to cobble together from RAW with a single personal change. See how you like them:

What is required to make a jump to hyperspace:
1. Plot the trip (30 minutes to several hours).
2. Input trip into the Nav-comp
2a. Typically a Moderate difficulty [13+] astrogation roll.
2b. Requires the ship to be in space (Nav-Comp accesses sensor information and makes calculations taking into account current space conditions, galactic drift, known natural hazards, etc).
2c. 12 rounds to safely and optimally calculate the hyperspace coordinates for the trip.
2d. A hasty entry into hyperspace may be attempted. Requires 1 round but the difficulty doubles.
3. Enter hyperspace (required to be 50 spacial units from gravity well before engaging hyperdrives).
3a. Alternate Mechanic: once a ship has reached planetary orbit the GameMaster makes a secret roll using the pilots starship piloting skill and rolls vs a target number of 30. The difference being the number of rounds before they can make the jump to hyperspace.

When making a hasty entry into hyperspace It is not explained if the characters must have a planned destination. We can infer that Nav-Comp calculations require a starting and ending point, thus facilitating an Astrogation roll. The Nav-Comp then calculates the needed hyperspace coordinates between the two points.

A hasty entry into hyperspace would not be an optimally calculated route. Assess a x2 to x5 time penalty to the trip. Depending on the conditions prior to the hyperspace jump the time penalty could be as high as x20.

If a trip would normally take 18 hours, a hasty hyperspace calculation would make the trip 36-90 hours (and as much as 360 hours). Making the 18 hour trip 1 to 3 days (and as much as 15 days). The astrogation difficulty is doubled and significantly increases the likelihood of a hyperspace mishap.

Precalculated trips can be purchased. The cost reflects how well known the trip is, (Alderaan to Coruscant or a vacation trip could be well-known trips, navigating the Kessel run is well-known but difficult, coordinates to a hidden planet are rare). This does not negate the need to make an astrogation roll to use the Nav-Comp to calculate the hyperspace coordinates.
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griff
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These might be blasphemy, but in the first part of Star Gate (the movie) David Spacer give a great example of needing six points of reference to plot coordinates in a three dimensionals, and a seventh to calculate a course. Maybe the navcomputer stores two of these six points of reference (destinations) while current position will always be the seventh to plot a course.
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Quetzacotl
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
2b. Requires the ship to be in space (Nav-Comp accesses sensor information and makes calculations taking into account current space conditions, galactic drift, known natural hazards, etc).
Somewhere in the Rules it is said that you can "pre calculate" the Hyperjump while on the planet (something that many people do).

So this point can't be right.

@griff
Well, not really, because The Hyperdrive and the navigation in Starwars works completely different.

Daniel Jackson says that with 7 Points you can Plot a course, but it is never said that this is actually what the Stargates actually do. It might just be like a "telephone number", just that on every planet you have different numbers for input.

So nice idea, but doesn't really applie here.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:

2d. A hasty entry into hyperspace may be attempted. Requires 1 round but the difficulty doubles.


To me that part of astrogation was always wonky. Normally when 'hasting' an action it halves the duration but doubles the difficulty to use. SO why with astrogation is it one twelving the duration to use (going from 1 minute to 1 round-5 seconds), still only doubling the difficulty?
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"A character making an astrogation roll needs to make calculations for the jump to hyperspace"

"Calculating a route takes one minute if the character us using a well-traveled route or is using pre-calculated coordinates (in emergencies a character can try to jump into hyperspace in a one round instead of one minute)."

"Calculating a route between known systems takes about half an hour: many freighter captains calculate coordinates while still at the spaceport ..."
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