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A Force attribute?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe instead of a fixed 5 CP, the cost could be equal to half of the current CP cost to increase the relevant skills...

EDIT: Or reduced cost if learned in combination with an increase in skill.
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Leon The Lion
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, if that's were you want to head with it. I'll be sticking to my house rules.
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nuclearwookiee
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't had a chance to read through all nine pages on this, so let me just express my support for the idea of a Force attribute. I would keep it simple. The starting range on the attribute should be 0D-3D, representing the options under the RAW of spending anywhere from zero to three of your starting attribute dice in force powers. Beyond this, a player could invest starting skill dice, as normal. Personally, I wouldn't mess with making the powers advanced skills or anything.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some thread necro here...

There was some discussion previously as to the difficulty of fitting a new Attribute into existing Character Sheets. The solution, IMO, is pretty simple. Either:
    A). Put the character's Force Attribute into the Force Sensitive? space, with the Attribute Dice instead of "Yes", or...

    B). Simply put the Attribute in the Special Abilities section, just as you normally would with the Force Skills under the RAW. Since not everyone will have a Force Attribute (much like the Metaphysics Attribute in D6 Space, where it is the only Attribute in which a character can have a 0D), there isn't really a need to rearrange all the templates to accommodate it.

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Zarn
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the occasional Story Factor modification if one wants to make the game mechanics reflect stuff like Corran Horn's nonproficiency with Telekinesis but skill with absorbing energy - the Halcyon bloodline, essentially.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
And the occasional Story Factor modification if one wants to make the game mechanics reflect stuff like Corran Horn's nonproficiency with Telekinesis but skill with absorbing energy - the Halcyon bloodline, essentially.

I don't know if anyone has ever come up with a decent recreation of that rules-wise. Because the Halcyon line could use TK if they absorbed and converted energy into Force to fuel it. It'd require either a rewrite of Absorb/Dissipate or a completely new power (Convert Energy?) with Absorb/Dissipate as a prerequisite, and then a special rule for the Halcyon line that also takes into account their proficiency in Affect Mind.

For Convert Energy, perhaps a character could pick up a temporary (must be spent that round or lost) 1D bonus for every 3-5 points of damage absorbed, which can then be funneled into boosting Force skills. Follow that with a Halcyon-specific rule that they can only use TK by rolling the temporary dice generated by Conserve Energy.

Proficiency in certain areas could be as simple as assigning a dice bonus to specific skills. The Halcyon line, for example, could have +4D to use Affect Mind and Absorb/Dissipate or Convert Energy to offset that they can't use TK. It's a little convoluted, and not too many characters are going to need it, but...
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ebertran
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a rule doc somewhere with Force as Attribute, so I don't have to dig through 9 pages? Smile
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebertran wrote:
Is there a rule doc somewhere with Force as Attribute, so I don't have to dig through 9 pages? Smile

Here you go.

Or you can look up the Metaphysics Attribute in the D6 Space book, as this closely parallels it.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting option.

Has anyone ever tried to use the rules for creating an effect of a Force Use?
Just as it is described in D6 Adveture (Psionics), D6 Space (Metaphysics) and D6 Fantasy (Magic, Miracles)?

Basically it's a template of how to create a desired effects by applying certain modifiers.

It would allow to do the thing Jedi did in EU or movies but with some "customization" resulting from the time period/ training received. For example, during the prequels we all saw how the force push worked: Jedi used their hand to "channel" the Force. But in SWTOR, Satele Shan had her own Force Push with visible effect manifestation.

It would also allow more flexibility, especially for the beginning characters to have their own "weaker" versions of lightsaber combat, farseeing, life detection, ect. So, no more "all-or-nothing" powers but rather weak, moderate, strong version of it:

Quote:
JAR JAR continues to panic and babble incoherently.
QUI-GON: Relax.
QUI-GON puts his hand on JAR JAR's shoulder. JAR JAR relaxes into a coma.
OBI-WAN: You overdid it.


and another example of graded life detection from AotC:

Quote:
ANAKIN
It was her idea... No harm will come to her. I can sense everything going on in that room.
Trust me.

OBI-WAN
It's too risky... and your senses aren't that attuned, young apprentice.



PS. D6 Fantasy - great source for Dathomir Witches spells (books and TV series).
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
It would allow to do the thing Jedi did in EU or movies but with some "customization" resulting from the time period/ training received. For example, during the prequels we all saw how the force push worked: Jedi used their hand to "channel" the Force. But in SWTOR, Satele Shan had her own Force Push with visible effect manifestation.

The SWTOR trailers produced some very interesting ideas, but I'm not willing to accept everything we see in them as canon. Just because a CGI artist decided to insert a visual effect for Force Push (where no such effect was seen in the films) is no reason to include it. On the other hand, it's clear that Jedi used gestures (Telekinesis) and spoken words (Affect Mind) while using Force powers, so the Difficulty modifiers for both would not be inappropriate.

Quote:
It would also allow more flexibility, especially for the beginning characters to have their own "weaker" versions of lightsaber combat, farseeing, life detection, ect. So, no more "all-or-nothing" powers but rather weak, moderate, strong version of it:

Quote:
JAR JAR continues to panic and babble incoherently.
QUI-GON: Relax.
QUI-GON puts his hand on JAR JAR's shoulder. JAR JAR relaxes into a coma.
OBI-WAN: You overdid it.

My first impression here was more of a Wild Dice Failure on a successful Affect Mind roll. So Qui-gon succeeded, but with an unexpected side effect of effectively stunning Jar-jar.

Quote:
and another example of graded life detection from AotC:

Quote:
ANAKIN
It was her idea... No harm will come to her. I can sense everything going on in that room.
Trust me.

OBI-WAN
It's too risky... and your senses aren't that attuned, young apprentice.

My first thought here was more of Danger Sense than Life Detection. Note that Obi-wan and Anakin didn't sense what was going on in the bedroom until the Kouhuns were almost ready to strike. All it would take here is to add "Modified by Relationship and Proximity," to Danger Sense, and allow it to detect danger to people who are "close" to the Jedi.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebertran wrote:
Is there a rule doc somewhere with Force as Attribute, so I don't have to dig through 9 pages? Smile


Or here on the 2nd page: http://www.rancorpit.com/forums/downloads/Other%20Fan-Made%20Supplements/Force%20Power%20&%20Description%20[Raven%20Redstar].pdf
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
On the other hand, it's clear that Jedi used gestures (Telekinesis) and spoken words (Affect Mind) while using Force powers, so the Difficulty modifiers for both would not be inappropriate.


Well, as i've mentioned before, shouldn't that then mean if a jedi does NOT use those gestures, shouldn't the power's difficulty be raised?

CRMcNeill wrote:
My first thought here was more of Danger Sense than Life Detection. Note that Obi-wan and Anakin didn't sense what was going on in the bedroom until the Kouhuns were almost ready to strike. All it would take here is to add "Modified by Relationship and Proximity," to Danger Sense, and allow it to detect danger to people who are "close" to the Jedi.


But isn't danger sense on yourself only, not on others??
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
My first thought here was more of Danger Sense than Life Detection. Note that Obi-wan and Anakin didn't sense what was going on in the bedroom until the Kouhuns were almost ready to strike. All it would take here is to add "Modified by Relationship and Proximity," to Danger Sense, and allow it to detect danger to people who are "close" to the Jedi.

But isn't danger sense on yourself only, not on others??

In RAW, yes. He is suggesting tweaking the power so that it does sense danger for others too.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Well, as i've mentioned before, shouldn't that then mean if a jedi does NOT use those gestures, shouldn't the power's difficulty be raised?

Well, seeing as how the RAW for Force powers makes no mention of using spoken word or gesture as part of Force powers (despite clear film evidence that it occurs), any additional rule should use the WEG powers as written as a base. We wouldn't want to change WEG's exact wording, after all.

Quote:
But isn't danger sense on yourself only, not on others??

If one were to insist that WEG's Force Powers as written are immutable, inviolate and not subject to change, despite being a secondary source derived from a primary source that ultimately contradicted them, then yes.

Or one could lighten up, accept that no officially published stats are canon, and modify them to match the entirety of the evidence from the primary source (the films) by simply incorporating a few minor changes.

I wonder which one you'll pick...
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could be a danger sense as Anakin acted a round before the attack. I thought about Life Detection as Jedi sensed those creatures as the approached Padme (in game terms: they went into the detection range of 10 meters). Anyway, the point is: do these rules fit the SW RPG, and allow the use of the Force as it is presented in the movies? Maybe they suit the game better than orignal set of rules?

garhkal wrote:
Well, as I've mentioned before, shouldn't that then mean if a jedi does NOT use those gestures, shouldn't the power's difficulty be raised?

Yes. Gestures add bonus to player’s roll as it is presented in mentioned sourcebooks. So it can be done with or without them. Like Vader and his Force Grip - sometimes used with gesture and sometimes not. Same with telekinesis or affect mind.

garhkal wrote:
But isn't danger sense on yourself only, not on others??

Normally, yes. I asked about these new rules as they eliminate to the need to think about such things. “Will this power allow to do that?? Or how much should we modify it” and there goes an endless debate: players vs GM. With this rules you simply state what effect you wish to achieve, sum up the necessary modifiers and roll the difficulty.
But the power effect calculation requires some number of variables to be taken into account. So I guess a practice is needed to quickly estimate power difficulties during session. Has anyone tried it during session? Does it slow the dynamics and fun?
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