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The Star Wars Canon reset button has been pressed
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While i am cautiously optomistic on the new films, i an loath to feel that all we have worked with in the past 20+ years might get rendered moot by it all.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
While i am cautiously optomistic on the new films, i an loath to feel that all we have worked with in the past 20+ years might get rendered moot by it all.


My feeling is if the new films are great, I won't mind if they tank the EU. on the other hand if the new films suck, I'll be annoyed. I don't want to throw it away for nothing,or for a alternate timeline that I hate.
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Mikael Hasselstein
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
While i am cautiously optomistic on the new films, i an loath to feel that all we have worked with in the past 20+ years might get rendered moot by it all.

It's interesting that you should say that. What projects have you worked on that you think would be rendered moot by a new film?
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jmanski
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm cautiously optimistic, but I'm not a fan of Abrams, especially after the Trek movies. He is, however, a Star Wars fan and NOT a Trek fan, so he may be better suited for Wars, as well as the fact that Star Wars is perfect for the action he wants (where Trek isn't, exactly).
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
While i am cautiously optomistic on the new films, i an loath to feel that all we have worked with in the past 20+ years might get rendered moot by it all.

atgxtg wrote:
My feeling is if the new films are great, I won't mind if they tank the EU. on the other hand if the new films suck, I'll be annoyed. I don't want to throw it away for nothing,or for a alternate timeline that I hate.

I can sympathize with these feelings. In an idea world, all Star Wars movies would be awesome, all published material would be awesome, and none of it was contradicted anything else and our own personal SW universe/gameworld. But I have to remind myself, we don't have to have only one SW universe.

garhkal, what if the new canon does contradict your personal SWU/gameworld? Is that really a big deal? Can your world not go on as a parallel universe?

atgxtg, The EU is not being thrown away. The EU still exists. They are just not publishing new stories that take place in the EU. I can understand being upset that capping the EU off now means some EU plot or character arc is going to be left unresolved (please share specifically what if that is the case). But if not, then the aspects of the EU that you now like will remain in existence.

The EU ending is a sigh of relief for me for a similar reason that I have a little anxiety about there being new movies. What if the movies are totally awesome but contradictory to my ideas or select EU material in my SWU(which are also awesome). How do I resolve the contradictions between two awesome things? There a sense of peace with the completion of the films that has been taken away. But I'll just have to address contradictions when the time comes. It is much easier to choose between things when one of them sucks.
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The Brain
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the plus side I never have to put up with that Rakatan/Celestial god like precursor species type Traveller Ancients ripoff (which I hate as well) banthacrap again .
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Mikael Hasselstein
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
In an idea world, all Star Wars movies would be awesome, all published material would be awesome, and none of it was contradicted anything else and our own personal SW universe/gameworld.

...and all the children are above average. Razz

The Brain wrote:
On the plus side I never have to put up with that Rakatan/Celestial god like precursor species type Traveller Ancients ripoff (which I hate as well) banthacrap again .

I'm prettu confident that the new movies will not contradict that - so you will probably still have to put up with them.
Sorry.

Given how spotty the EU can be (believe me, I love Zahn, but there's really a lot of loathesome writing in the EU), let's hope/pray that Disney has better quality control when it comes to publishing new material for the NEU.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry if I've been incoherent or incomplete lately. I've lost a lot of sleep recently over the discovery of my son having a bully and his school being aware of the issue and not informing me. I had an unexpected flat tire to deal with and replace. My wife has been travelling and working a lot lately. And I've just plain been busy with children birthday parties and other events. RL has been very full and chaotic of late.

This weekend I've also chatted with Nate Butler (of Star Wars Timeline), joined Twitter to research tweets by a Senior Editor at LucasBooks, and reread the big announcement. Forgive me, but I think I missed stuff.

http://starwars.com/news/the-legendary-star-wars-expanded-universe-turns-a-new-page.html
Quote:
On the screen, the first new canon to appear will be Star Wars Rebels.

This animated show comes out later this year. This statement made me believe that none of the previous EU material would be canon in the newly expanding film canon universe, and that seems to still be true, but...

Quote:
While Lucasfilm always strived to keep the stories created for the EU consistent with our film and television content as well as internally consistent, Lucas always made it clear that he was not beholden to the EU...

In rereading this, I now notice that this differentiates the EU from film plus television content. It's obvious the television content they are referring to is The Clone Wars, but I never realized until now that TCW was not officially considered to be part of the EU. As stated earlier in the thread, I did understand T-canon being above C-canon, and I did understand that in practice, TCW even contradicted the films which effectively puts T-canon above G-canon. But I still never thought that TCW was officially not a part of the EU until now.

Quote:
...He set the films he created as the canon. This includes the six Star Wars episodes, and the many hours of content he developed and produced in Star Wars: The Clone Wars.

These sentences includes TCW with the films as canon, but it is talking about Lucas. George Lucas has nothing to do with determining canon anymore, so I still wouldn't have thought that Lucas considering TCB as a part of his definition of canon having any impact on now.

Quote:
...These stories are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align.

In this sentence it abruptly changes from taking about Lucas' canon to speaking of canon in general.

Although the official Star Wars.com press release is poorly worded, the above plus other sources I've looked into makes it fairly clear that TCW series has also made it through the fire to the newly expanding core canon of the modern franchise. I guess this is a case of me believing what I wanted to believe, because I liked the idea of TCW not defaulting to the new canon. The very premise of TCW seems very contradictory to RotS. Now, it is not T being below G on paper but above G in practice. It is T-canon = G-canon. T above G makes more sense, which would mean TCW would be an alternate reality diverging from film canon after AotC.

This irks me. I've argued that Lucas feels that his films alone are art, which means they existed for art and money, while the EU was always only ever been a business venture for him. When RotS ended, his art showing the character arc of Anakin was complete but the money machine could keep on rolling. Lucas making changes to the canon of his art with TCW was just a way to cha-ching with an EU-product, or at least I had thought it was an EU product. Lucas is still a demigod among men for giving literally billions to charity when he sold Lucasfilm to Disney, bit it still irks me that he sold his soul to the Devil in 2008. Lucas used the Jedi Mind Trick on everyone, and this sell-out is now canon in the post-Lucas franchise.

OK, I request assistance. I promise I will try to keep an open mind. If you are fan of TCW, please sell me on TCW being a part of film continuity.

1. How does it make sense that Anakin was made a full-fledged Jedi Knight very shortly after AotC instead of within the final year before RotS?

2. And then immediately after promotion, why would the Jedi Council think it is a good idea to immediately give a very flawed Jedi his own apprentice?

Thank You!
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Last edited by Whill on Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikael Hasselstein wrote:
garhkal wrote:
While i am cautiously optomistic on the new films, i an loath to feel that all we have worked with in the past 20+ years might get rendered moot by it all.

It's interesting that you should say that. What projects have you worked on that you think would be rendered moot by a new film?


All the fan and 'official' source books out there. If canon is redesigned as to what it is, then would that make those books no longer official?
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Mikael Hasselstein
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Mikael Hasselstein wrote:
garhkal wrote:
While i am cautiously optomistic on the new films, i an loath to feel that all we have worked with in the past 20+ years might get rendered moot by it all.

It's interesting that you should say that. What projects have you worked on that you think would be rendered moot by a new film?

All the fan and 'official' source books out there. If canon is redesigned as to what it is, then would that make those books no longer official?

You've worked on some of the official books? Wow, I didn't know you were one of that elite cadre of people. Shows how little I know of the people posting here.

It seems to me like there's always been a hierarchy of officialdom, with the movies proper being the highest tier (that so-called G-canon), and different degrees below that for the published material, and the self-published (ie. fanon) material somewhere in a subterranean levels, where only the Kowakian monkey-lizards subsist.

In that respect, is anything really new about these movies coming out? It's just like the late 90s all over again.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No i have not worked on any (though some of the fanbooks i have had a hand helping people edit, such as guardian A's npc stats books).
But when canon is redefined, it gives some credence to players saying that xyz should not be as it IS now (as per the old canon) but should be AYZ instead..
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
No i have not worked on any (though some of the fanbooks i have had a hand helping people edit, such as guardian A's npc stats books).
But when canon is redefined, it gives some credence to players saying that xyz should not be as it IS now (as per the old canon) but should be AYZ instead..

Don't be pushed around by players arguing canon. You are not a GM of the canon universe. You are the GM of YOUR own game world. If you are clear up front what is or isn't canon in YOUR game, then they just have to accept that if they choose to play. You are the lord and maser of your own game world, not whatever the current definitions of canon are.
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The Brain
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Don't be pushed around by players arguing canon. You are not a GM of the canon universe. You are the GM of YOUR own game world. If you are clear up front what is or isn't canon in YOUR game, then they just have to accept that if they choose to play. You are the lord and maser of your own game world, not whatever the current definitions of canon are


Hence why I officiate my games in a hooded black robe.
Player: "Hey, that's not the way they said it was in the Phantom Menace!"
[sounds of other players scooching away from the canon lawyer]
GM: "I'm afraid you are mistaken about a great many things."
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Leon The Lion
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Brain wrote:
Hence why I officiate my games in a hooded black robe.
Player: "Hey, that's not the way they said it was in the Phantom Menace!"
[sounds of other players scooching away from the canon lawyer]
GM: "I'm afraid you are mistaken about a great many things."

Oh hey, you too? Very Happy
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Brain wrote:


Hence why I officiate my games in a hooded black robe.
Player: "Hey, that's not the way they said it was in the Phantom Menace!"
[sounds of other players scooching away from the canon lawyer]
GM: "I'm afraid you are mistaken about a great many things."


And you can always point out that the scrolling intro text to ESP states that the rebels on Hoth were under the command of LUKE SKYWALKER!

Obviously somebody is rewrting history! Just like that Greedo shot first, revsionist propaganda.
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