Star Wars D6 2nd Edition: Revised, Expanded, and Updated

[aegisflashfire]

Hyperdrive Startup Time
I like this rule and hadn't seen it suggested before, but again I draw issue with "Space Transport" as a division of craft. Why does the Black Ice (a huge fuel container ship, a dozen KM's hyperdrive start up at the same rate as the Falcon? I also don't like that it throws another table lookup required.

What if it is just Hyperdrive Multiplier x Hull Code (modified by scale)-4 or some similar formula?


Free Actions Maybe I've missed it over the years, but I've never seen a clear statement of when a 'free action' occurs. Is it simultaneous with another action taken? (as I've always ruled) or is it an action that still takes an action, but requires no roll?

This is sort of a question that gets missed in with the quick draw rules too. Does the quickdraw, draw and fire, set to stun, etc actually take an action slot (so you act on 2nd pass?) The rules are not always clear


Ionization Damage
There are no rules for clearing ion damage other than to let it dissipate. This is an oversight on WEG's part that should probably be rectified. Maybe something else for the Shield person to do?

Basic Hyperdrive Calculation Chart the formatting on the columns is awful, and the rows is little better, maybe rotate the text 90 degrees for column headings, and expand the row headings to another line?

--actually looking at it more, its going to have to be a full page width rather than a single page column.


Interdictor Cruiser rules
I think these rules need to be moved to the Interdictor page (wherever that appears) rather than in this section. its a single vessel class (or if you're trying to make a general rule, because there ARE other ships out there that generate mass shadows) then leave off the part about Interdictors specifically except as an example.
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http://swfallingstar.podbean.com
GM of Falling Star: D6 Star Wars Campaign Podcast

[aegisflashfire]

Other Skills consider removing this. I've never seen anyone come up with a whole new force skill.

Combat Sense: Is this supposed to be +2 or +2D bonus? its +2D in 2nd edition, but +2 here

Dark Side Points for force powers its pretty clear that jedi can kill using the force without darkside points. Yoda hurls his saber at one clone, throughout EU people are force pushed off ledges, etc. I think we have to take into account the mindset of the character. Certain powers may be inherently evil (Force Lightning, Injure/Kill) though Electric Judgement is pretty much the same as force lightning and NOT evil. State of mind of the force user has to be addressed.

I think you're going to have to address Sith vs Dark Jedi, Grey Jedi, Living Force vs Unifying Force, Baran Do, Tyia, Aii Ting Monks, Flowwalking, & Shatterpoints in force powers. Good that you included some things, but I think some of the force powers need to be cast off in favor of some of the more important powers.
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http://swfallingstar.podbean.com
GM of Falling Star: D6 Star Wars Campaign Podcast

[DougRed4]

[klhaviation]

The more I read these skill changes, the more they make sense. I like most of them, but the block/parry rules NEED to stay RAW for play balance, as characters will be able to increase hand-to-hand (and lightsaber) skills far more rapidly than before.

[DougRed4]

My perspective on free actions, btw? They're free. In other words, they don't cost anything (as far as an action, or anything else). You can do as much "free" stuff as the GM allows, which is usually whatever makes narrative sense.
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green

[aegisflashfire]

But light saber already is a combined attack/defense skill (and gets augmented by light saber combat and combat sense. Most combat occurs at blaster ranges anyway. Let me think on it. I agree there's a trade off there.
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GM of Falling Star: D6 Star Wars Campaign Podcast

[aegisflashfire]

Okay some thoughts on parry skills. (Mostly just sort of organizing my thoughts)

Melee/Brawling combat never benefits from cover.
Melee/Brawling parry (assuming attacking & Defending in the same round) is not always a good idea, and strangely the nastier your opponent's weapon, the worse idea it is to try to parry.
If someone's swinging a lightsaber at me, they need a 20 to hit. If my parry skill is under 7D (6D when attacking) it makes more sense to hope they miss than to try to parry. (Your average roll is LESS than the base difficulty)
If someone is swinging a vibroaxe at you,(15 difficulty) if your parry skill is less than 5D, and you plan on attacking, parry is a poor choice.

This equation is less difficult for ranged combat since that 1-4D bonus for cover applies if dodging or not, and difficulties are nearly always in the 10-20 range. (+1D-4D makes dodging a



Melee/Brawling also is nearly always a physical defense (meaning you get an additional die of strength to resist damage from nearly all armors, including plenty that have no dex penalty such as blast vests & helmets)

Being in melee combat range means you had to GET to melee range, typically 1-3 rounds of crossing distance exposed to ranged combat. (and typically means you're at short or point blank range to the entire opposition)

Characters in melee and attacking once, typically must make 3 rolls per round (1 dodge, 1 parry, 1 attack)...ASSUMING they dont want to move, in which case they could be making 4 rolls per round. (You can step out of melee by acting first and covering more than 5 meters, meaning you can't be attacked on the first initiative pass) Characters shooting at range don't need to at all.

The rules are only 'unfair' or 'unbalanced' if they don't apply evenly to NPCs and PCs. Since NPCs can take the same skills, I'm not sure there is a serious problem.


I think the penalties for melee probably are sufficient that a slightly increased skill climb rate are okay.
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http://swfallingstar.podbean.com
GM of Falling Star: D6 Star Wars Campaign Podcast

[aegisflashfire]

[DougRed4]

Good points on the Parry stuff; you're right that it's often unwise to even try. Most of our games have far more blaster fire than HTH fighting anyway.

I allow that 1/2 move for free even if the person is doing a full defense.
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green

[klhaviation]

We have had some very long discussions about some of the more aggressive rule changes (by we i am refering to our design team members). And we hammered out a few thing. I can say we are not unanimous but we did clairfy some of the project parameters.

First off the feedback has been outstanding, many errors, suggestions, and critiques have been offeres up ai far on this forum, by email, and through our blog email. It has really saved us time in editing.

The skill list is likely (but not definately) going to stay mostly as is, with the exception of some edits, possibly eliminating a few non essential skills, and changing some of the weapon repair skills. I peraonally like the concept of changing the DEX based weapons skills and starship piloting skills. But we (as a collective team) are moving cautiously. Our concerns with major skills rule changes are as follows:

1) Compatibly. One of our chief goals was to retain a very high degree of compatiblity. Changing weapon and starship skills so drastically requires players to convert all old sw d6 material.

2) Edition isolation. When i worked as a freelancer on another sci-fi project years ago i saw this happen. The game we were working on evolved across numerous editions, and divided an already niche communuty into even smaller groups. Some claimed the most recent edition, some claimed a few back was the best. Still others claimed the classic edition was the only way to play. The truth is they were (mostly) all a bit crappy. Not because of the system, but because of bad editing and the fact that source material was mad obsolete so quickly. Players did not adopt newer (and even better) editions because their campaigns, sourcebooks, and gm notebooks we all obsolete. We dont want even begin to start this happening in a community as small as d6 sw.

3) How much will it actually make a difference? We might never kniw. The truth is, the d6 skill system is imperfect. The skill changes proposed above make a lot of sense, and are well thought out. Some suggestions will appear in the final rules. But the changes are largely asthetic. We like to think in thise terms and they are a better way to addreas things like blaster vs. Slugthrower rifle. But they dont seem to drastically alter the mechanics. Or do they, we dont know. A new ruleset has up to 10 different playtest groups to figgure this stuff out, we dont. While we would like to tweak a lot of the skills chapter, we also affect (potentially) numerous rules.

Well that is what we have been discussing, feel free to disagree, or agree, we wanna hear it.

Ps sorry for the poor spelling, on my smartphone.

[DougRed4]

Those are all important things to consider, klhaviation. Especially the fragmenting the player base with different editions bit.

I think the closer you can keep things to 2R&E is key, to not make so much great stuff obsolete.
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green

[aegisflashfire]

I think there is a danger in not fixing the things that are broken too though. Logic and Playability should take precedence over a dogmatic adherence to what has been before.

If the only thing you're going to do is add rules, you run the risk of just bloating the system. So you have to find places to trim, streamline, or simplify rules at the same time.

Example: Podracing Skill. Its clearly a part of the star wars universe, and given that its the focus of a third of a whole movie, (the primary information sources), I don't think you can get around adding it.


A lot of what you've done is consolidate existing rules both house & WEG official supplement into a single place. That's an admirable goal in and of itself, but not worthy of the name "3rd Edition" -- more like 2.5, since you've changed none of the game mechanics. (something I'm okay with, but lets call it what it is)

I think you have two choices:

Settle on being just a one-stop-shop for 2nd Edition R&E, with some added materials from the prequels/EU

Set yourself the somewhat riskier, but also more bold choice of fixing what is truly broken in 2nd Edition R&E.


As long as conversions are simple, they are not to be feared. Certainly we're not even approaching the conversions between D&D editions or Shadowrun editions. You're not changing mechanics for example.

Thats fine. In fact my only real mechanical 'wish list' change would be adding to the speed that dice can be rolled & Compared, but that would require mechanical changes, which would take away from the flavor of the game, so I wouldn't advocate that.

Some things I have not seen that WILL need to be addressed in either case.

1) Cybernetics. Given that 2 of the major characters get this done on three different occasions in 6 films, you pretty much have to deal with it.

2) total dominance of Jedi in the high end game in combat situations. its pretty much an established fact that a high end Jedi slaughters the competition while remaining untouchable.

3) A few places where the rules are simply absent. (cleaning up ion cannon damage for example)


EDIT:
I think my though on it is this: Unless you're willing to make significant changes (for the right reasons, change for change's sake is to be avoided naturally) this is just a consolidation of many sources and doesn't warrant a GM saying "Ok, we're using 3rd Edition." As a GM, I'd just say, "We're using 2nd edition and throwing in some house rules"

On the other hand, if you fix what's broken about 2nd edition, and make a true 3rd edition, I'll be leading the charge for using it.

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http://swfallingstar.podbean.com
GM of Falling Star: D6 Star Wars Campaign Podcast

[CRMcNeill]

[klhaviation]

[klhaviation]